+1/+1 Counters versus Selesnya Charm
Asked by Wolfbrand 12 years ago
I was reading about the difference between +X/+Y counters and "target creature gets +X/+Y", and apparently the counters are only tallied and added just before applying damage in the combat phase. Knowing this, I became curious about Selesnya Charm and its interaction with counters. For instance, what would happen if you had a 5/5 Champion of the Parish (boosted solely by his own counters)? Technically he would be a 1/1 until actually applying damage, correct? So would Selesnya Charm work on him? Likewise, would a non-morbid Tragic Slip take out Champion of the Parish at any given time?
Just adding with MTG Wiki has to say about it:
In contrast to abilities that say "...creature gains +X/+Y...", a +X/+Y counter does not change the power and toughness of a creature. Instead, the number of +X/+Y counters on a creature are summed up and added to the power and toughness of that creature just before a player assigns damage from that creature during the Combat Phase.
November 27, 2012 4:41 p.m.
302.4c To determine a creature's power and toughness, start with the numbers printed in its lower right corner, then apply any applicable continuous effects. (See rule 613, "Interaction of Continuous Effects.")
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
121.1a A +X/+Y counter on a creature or on a creature card in a zone other than the battlefield, where X and Y are numbers, adds X to that object's power and Y to that object's toughness. Similarly, -X/-Y counters subtract from power and toughness. See rule 613.3.
November 27, 2012 4:44 p.m.
Here are the rules on counters:
121.1. A counter is a marker placed on an object or player that modifies its characteristics and/or interacts with a rule, ability, or effect. Counters are not objects and have no characteristics. Notably, a counter is not a token, and a token is not a counter. Counters with the same name or description are interchangeable.
The counters change the power and toughness of the creature. Any card that looks for creatures' p/t, looks for it, including any modifiers, at the time the spell or ability resolves. Modifiers include counters, enchantments, previous spells or abilities, etc.
November 27, 2012 4:50 p.m.
Okay, so it's exactly how I used to think it worked before getting confused. Thanks!
Chuck13s says... #1
Uhm, no I don't think so. The counters are pretty much permanent until he leaves the battlefield, so Champion of the Parish would be 5/5 when hit by the Tragic Slip , and 5/5 when you use the Selesnya Charm .
November 27, 2012 4:37 p.m.