Yu-Gi-Oh! VS. Magic: The Gathering
General forum
Posted on Nov. 2, 2013, 11:25 a.m. by MonsterFinder221
(PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR HATING AND INSULTING OTHER CCG/TCG! THIS IS MERELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF OTHERS TO LEARN THE TRAITS OF THESE TWO GAMES!)
Can anybody enumerate the Pros and Cons of Yu-Gi--Oh! and Magic: the Gathering? (Bullet-form would be nice.)
I can do MTG, but I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh in years, and never competitively.
Pros
- Oldest, most established TCG
- Biggest player base / prize support
- Design and Development have really figured out what works and what doesn't in the last few years (at least in my opinion :) )
- Color Pie and mana bases prevent extreme craziness
- Drafting and Commander well supported "alternate" game types
- World-building and connections in cards, instead of just "every monster we could think of"
- One of the best communities I have ever seen
Cons
- Highly expensive, especially to compete in Modern or Legacy or stay current in Standard
- Older cards can be very broken
November 2, 2013 11:37 a.m.
yugioh is just no fun anymore, you can win with every pre constructed deck in one turn now
November 2, 2013 11:47 a.m.
well me and my brother bought two of the new ones and yes it is possible and it happens often
November 2, 2013 12:26 p.m.
People complain about Magic's power creep... Look at some old cards and then the new ones. Suddenly 2 star creatures are basically God cards.
November 2, 2013 12:31 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #8
I personally have never played Yu-Gi-Oh, I've seen it played and it doesn't look like something I'd enjoy.
November 2, 2013 12:38 p.m.
As I understand it, the issue many have with yu-gi-oh is that they have a tendency to take every powerful and valuable card from a set, and reprint it as a common in the next set. It makes it worthless as an investment, and creates a level of power-creep that means even the newest worst players who want to spend the least money are all playing with extremely powerful cards.
November 2, 2013 12:41 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #11
The main difference between YuGiOh and MtG is the concept of mana. Magic has a system set in place where you can't outplay your mana base. If you want to speed up your plays, you either have to play lots of cheaper things or use slots in your deck to ramp.
Conversely, YuGiOh has nothing similar to mana. Long gone are the days where people Tribute Summoned their 6-star monsters. For the most part you can cast as many cards as you want in one turn, provided you can keep your hand full enough. Because there's no limit to how many monsters you can Special Summon in one turn, the game has (d)evolved to the point where combo decks reign supreme. Get out enough things fast enough and you pretty much just win.
It's not just that YuGiOh RnD is printing super broken cards (which they are). The main problem is that there's no way to limit the power of those super busted cards without making them unplayable compared to the cards that already exist. When Wizards prints a particularly broken card for MtG (let's use Progenitus ), they have the option to make it equally difficult to cast. YuGiOh doesn't really have that luxury.
In the end, TCG's exist to make money, and they do that by printing new sets for people to buy. Wizards has been good at making MtG desirable by printing fun and flavorful sets. YuGiOh has made their sets more desirable by always making one new card that everybody has to have. That card is usually pretty broken.
Magic also has the benefit of having a healthy Limited format. By creating sets and blocks that can be drafted successfully or played in Sealed events, they increase the demand for their product. YuGiOh only has one format, so they either have to print tournament-winning cards or go bust.
November 2, 2013 12:51 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #12
Yeah, they've reprinted a lot of their big staple cards at common over the last few years, but that's mainly been to remove the barrier to entry for play. There was a time where if you didn't have a [Mirror Force] and a [Solemn Judment] in your deck then you couldn't really win, but those cards were $50 each. It made playing really unfun when you lost to those cards you couldn't afford. It was possible to build budget decks, but they really couldn't compete, even at an "FNM" level.
Budget MtG decks have their own problems, of course, but a good player can still do some pretty sick things with a budget deck.
And like I said above, YuGiOh only has one format. Imagine if MtG was Legacy or nothing. It would be almost impossible to play Magic without either $1400 or a bunch of necessary reprints.
November 2, 2013 12:58 p.m.
MonsterFinder221 says... #13
And what about the Pokemon TCG? Are they on par with MTG?
November 2, 2013 1:09 p.m.
I play Yugioh with players who play competitively. Frankly, you can spend $40 & have a deck with several OTKs built it. If you drop $150-200, you're garunteed to get that FTK nearly every game. It mostly has to do with the size of the decks (40 cards).
I like magic better for two reasons: 1) Keyword abilities simplify the game so I don't have to learn every card effect I'll ever have to encounter & their interactions, 2) There's an actual luck factor built in because of the size of the decks (60).
November 2, 2013 1:13 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #15
This is actually an extraordinarily interesting thread for me seeing as I have no knowledge of any modern TCG outside of MtG [I did play L5R (I think this one still exists), Battletech and Star Wars way back in the day though].
The way they developed YGO seems pretty ill conceived, not having any way to limit what gets cast? Really? I mean, it seems like a resource system is a necessity in order to ensure a game can't be easily busted. Also only having one format seems a bit out of touch as well.
I would say another pro of MtG is that the competitive scene is actually monitored. Meaning if R&D does screw crap up with a busted ass card (combo winter pre release ban of Memory Jar anyone?) they can attempt to fix it through bans per format as opposed to letting the level of play degenerate.
November 2, 2013 1:24 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #16
To be fair, YuGiOh has a banlist that rotates twice a year, but it seems almost random which cards they end up banning/unbanning. Yes, they unban broken cards when they get relatively less broken because of power creep.
November 2, 2013 1:31 p.m.
I've heard that in YuGiOh! card advantage is completely nuts because you can cast everything for free, so if you draw enough cards you pretty much just win.
November 2, 2013 1:50 p.m.
brokendwarf says... #18
As a former Yugioh player, I can vouch for how wonky the game was. However, the company that makes Yugioh, Konami, basically has 2 different sides: the Japanese side, and the American side. The Japanese side is balanced, and the American side is pretty much out of line at the moment.
Konami's banlist for Yugioh consists of cards that become way too powerful based on the current meta game. The meta game, however, consists of essentially 2 decks that if you aren't playing, you pretty much just lose: Dragons and Mermails. In my personal opinion, and that of other people I know that play the game, Dragons are the most broken and out-of-line deck that has ever existed the game. The deck plays way too fast for any other deck to keep up with it. Konami tried to fix it with the most recent banlist, but the players just found ways around it. Mermails aren't as broken, but they're still too fast as well.
If you have card advantage over your opponent, you can just wreck everything they try doing. However, Konami frowns upon card advantage, thus banning most cards that have draw effects with no downside (e.g. Pot of Greed, which says draw 2 cards. Magic, of course, can laugh in the face of this one card).
November 2, 2013 2:31 p.m.
brokendwarf says... #19
And as for the price range, for the meta game at least, Dragons and Mermails cost too much. For those unfamiliar with the game, your deck can have an extra deck which basically consists of more powerful monsters that you can summon through certain conditions. These decks require 2 certain monsters (Number 11: Big Eye and Mecha Phantom Beast Dracossack) that, at the moment, run for about $70 and $90 respectively, and you need 3 copies. So for just 6 cards for your extra deck, and not even the main deck, you have to shell out about $500. For that kind of money I can make a decent EDH deck.
I feel like the game has too many levels of rarity. It goes common, rare, super rare, ultra rare, ultimate rare, secret rare, ghost rare. And there's a bunch of other weird rarities.
Yugioh's booster packs contain 9 cards of basically useless commons, 1 of which is always a rare, and you might get something super rare or up. The cost the same as a Magic booster, but those contain 15 cards and the rare in that pack is useful most of the time.
November 2, 2013 2:41 p.m.
i played yugioh at a point like evryone did back then. year later when i thought why not lets build a deck made a list and all and shocked myself at seeing the rediculous price range as brokendwarf said extra deck cost insane amount of money. $500+ their o stopped and invested in my magic decks instead for that price i could easly build 2magic ones where even then had money left...
but realy yungxak??? FTKs so easy there now makes me cry :(
November 2, 2013 3:06 p.m.
When I was introduced to Magic, I was wary initially, because so much of it screamed capitalist shenanigans in so many ways. It took some explaining and a lot of reading Mark Rosewater to convince me that Magic R&D is actually trying to make a good game over everything else. What brokendwarf is describing just makes me sad. I know a few people addicted to one-armed bandits, and it feels no different...
November 2, 2013 3:20 p.m.
It seems to me that Yugioh also pushes the power level a fair bit with each new release. They add new cards that just do the job better than previous ones, add new archetypes that are designed to shift boxes because they are the new top tier and even in their precon decks they push the power to make people buy several.
For example, they released a preconstructed deck that contained 2 never before printed dragon cards. These formed the basis of the Chaos Dragon archtype that basically used these two dragons to SS and beat face with a ton of damage. They then limited or banned the cards that they deck wanted to get out to weaken the deck in time for their next release.
Another example would be the Beast King. A mostly casual card, it can be normal summoned as a 1900 or tribute summoned as a 3000 attack creature. On top of that, you can tribute a third monster to make it blow up all other monster on the field. These were also printed on 3 different monsters, but this one monster outclasses them all by doing what they do but better.
This said, I am building a yugioh deck. I found a semi cheap yugioh deck that appeals to me in playstyle and visually. While it isn't a top deck and has 1-2 expensive cards in it, it does have fairly good match ups versus the top 2 decks.
November 2, 2013 4:08 p.m.
I've played both games extensively and found that Magic is better for 3 big reasons:
Magic is a balanced game. In YuGiOh, you could easily drop the strongest spells in your deck on the first turn. Outside of Vintage and a few Legacy decks, you aren't going to be dumping your hand to try and win on turn 1 or 2. You need to wait until you have the resources to do most things in Magic, which inherently slows the game down and gives a lot more leeway to things like innovation and player skill.
Magic has much more support and (frankly) the support is a lot more mature. I'd argue that YuGiOh's player base has an average age of 15 or 16, tops. Magic's? Early 20's, at least. If you're 13, then obviously YuGiOh would seem more attractive than it would to someone who's 23. And you can only get older...
R&D is a thing in Magic. In YuGiOh, they just print broken shit and ban it right away. In Magic, bannings occur extremely rarely and only if a good deal of research has gone into why the card(s) should be banned in the first place, as well as the aftereffects of doing so.
November 2, 2013 4:09 p.m.
RedShadows says... #24
I played YuGiOh for a while, and loved being able to fuse cards. However, when synchro came out, I just gave up. It wasn't any fun compared to playing decks like starter Yugi or Kaiba. Magic is immensely more fun to me because of the luck and strategy needed to play.
November 2, 2013 5:18 p.m.
MaliciousMac says... #25
I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh competitively. I quit mostly because my friends wouldn't play against me anymore because my Karakuri's were too good. Regardless, the game changed too much to the point where you could win within 3 or 4 turns by locking your opponent out and casting infinite loops. And anyone with a ridiculous amount of money could do it.
I enjoy Magic much more because there is far more strategy involved, more thinking, and, oddly, more creativity. Aside from the generic control netdecks I see at FNM, I have seen some pretty interesting stuff in Magic, more so than YGO. In addition to that, the playerbase is far more mature.
November 2, 2013 5:22 p.m.
MaliciousMac says... #26
But honestly, I wouldn't mind building another Casual deck for YGO to play with anyone who wants to. Probably something with Blue-Eyes [:
November 2, 2013 5:23 p.m.
As a casual Yugioh player and competitive MTG player, I can say Magic has a mayor advantage over YGO.
Magic has:- Balancing cost system - More years of experience - A well developed playerbase - Solid rules - Different formats - Balancing over time (The power hasn't crept up, but changed between Creatures and non-permanents))
YGO has:- No cost system (hard way to balance) - A bit of experience - Considered a Toy - Playerbase which is kinda turbulent - Confusing rules - One format - A massive case of powercreep
November 2, 2013 5:34 p.m.
DimirZer00 says... #28
I've only really played Yu Gi Oh as video game on the Sony PlayStation. So, I've always been more of a MTG player from start. However, My two major issue with Yu Gi Oh are.
the game basically force you into buying more cards.That are to remain off to the side and outside deck. For when you transformer two card into one.
Some Yu Gi Oh players and their holy crusade against MTG.These Yu Gi Oh players are on a holier than thou mission to prov that MTG is horrible game and no one should be enjoy it.
November 3, 2013 1:20 a.m.
As an active player of both, I can say a few things. Firstly, there's a very good yugioh simulator online (dueling network), which is about 10,000 times better than cockatrice or anything like that, and is free. Yugioh doesn't have a concept of mana, so you can get some whacky stuff happening, but people who say dragons and Mermails almost exclusively win are just wrong. The game is diverse enough that many decks (if built correctly) can stand up to those decks easily. The game is a lot faster than mtg, but a lot more comes down to how well you spend your resources. If you spend your whole hand playing out a combo that puts your opponent onto 100 life-points (1 life as an mtg analogy), then they can play a boardwipe (not all the time, but there are about 5 you can use right now in a 40-card deck, so they'll appear quite often), then the person who over-exerted has pretty much lost. Card advantage is much more important, but quite frankly, they're different games, and dueling network has on average 3000 users at a time, a system of admins, and is well organised and free, so you don't even have to go to tournaments. It's not for everyone, and it plays differently to mtg, but it's not a BAD game by any means.
November 3, 2013 3:31 a.m.
And that how you play it, when i start 2nd i just wait what my brother puts down boardwipe and then play my fucking 5 samurais in one turn and i won, or he does the same when he is not first to begin. ITS NO FUN I TOLD YA!
November 3, 2013 3:39 a.m.
Actually. You play your elder, then kagemusha and he either solemn warnings shi en or torrentially your two dudes and the game continues normally.
November 3, 2013 3:42 a.m.
Well i play ygo just for fun or better said i played it. And i am not satisfied with how this structere deck or the flame beast king structere deck are just op.
Dalektable says... #2
I don't know about he pros and cons of each, but personally i enjoy magic more. I've played both, and magic seems to offer more variety and intricate gameplay which i love. Then again, I got way more into magic than i ever did Yu-Gi-Oh so i very well could be wrong.
November 2, 2013 11:37 a.m.