So, does anyone actually draft?
Limited forum
Posted on March 3, 2015, 12:21 a.m. by Gruss029
I am disappointed in the allied focus of Dragons of Tarkir (no enemy colored dragons), and MaRo has said repeatedly that it is because enemy colored drafted too similarly to the wedges in KTK. Sad day.
Which brings me to my point - how many people actually draft? The people I play with casually (group of 6+ friends and family) , the people I play modern and EDH with at my local game shop (12-15 regulars), none of them ever mention or attend any drafts. A couple have done a Conspiracy draft once, and that is about it as far as I know. We all just buy boosters/boxes to trade around or buy singles. I never have done a draft, never want to. I feel like that is fairly normal as my LGS has a good mix of competitive and casual players across standard, modern, and EDH, and I am curious if TappedOut follows as well.
I understand that limited is one of Magic's biggest money makers (along with Standard Constructed), I just wish limited wasn't pushed so much in design and development. Anyone else share my disappointment with the draft-focus of Magic in general, especially when it leads to decisions you dislike?
Limited is argued by many to be the most skill intensive form of magic. A brand new deck of questionable power vs an opponent on the same scale, repeated. I draft as much as I can, and while I'm not amazing at it, I do pretty well every time. It really is super fun once you get into it. Hell, that's why people build cubes!
March 3, 2015 12:52 a.m.
I draft on occasion. Fates I've drafted a lot because it's actually a really fun set to draft in my opinion but I'll usually draft on release night and maybe once or twice amongst friends where we pitch in for a box and draft from it. My only issue is I wish there were more cards designed for limited that had usability in standard or modern. Like some cards are limited bombs and you draft this because they won games in that format but afterwards your stuck with a card that's useless outside of that draft because it's just so bad in everything else.
March 3, 2015 12:55 a.m.
I hate drafting. Either I end up with terrible cards, or I end up with great cards and lose anyway. Magic is stressful at the best of times, adding even more stress by giving me random cards that I have to make a deck out of and THEN try and win with is just too much.
March 3, 2015 1:05 a.m.
Personally, I love drafting. My local MTG store does it every friday and I try to make it every week.
March 3, 2015 1:09 a.m.
Kingzerker says... #8
If you've never drafted you're not a real magic player. That's only a slight exaggeration btw. Drafting is itself a game within the game that tests your skills on multiple levels and in my opinion makes you an overall better player. When drafting you must learn how to read signals, evaluate cards, consider your mana curve, understand your deck's strategy/gameplan, and know your meta. For example, in some formats a 2/3 body is just okay, but in this morph heavy format a 2/3 is great!
A lot of these skills can be applied to constructed formats as well. Knowing your meta is again an important skill. When drafting it's also extremely important to know what your deck is trying to do and how it wants to win so you can make your picks accordingly. This is something you should be doing when building constructed decks. Same goes for your mana curve. The biggest and most important thing drafting does to help a player improve their magic skills is that it forces you to consider cards and interactions on a deeper level. Slamming a Siege Rhino is almost always a good play but in draft you don't have cards that are always good. You learn how to take advantage of given situations, proper sequencing, and it opens you to alternative/less obvious lines of play that may in fact be optimal.
Besides, at the end of the day, not every card in a 150 or some card set is going to be good enough for constructed. Nor should they be. That would be bad for the game mechanically and financially. If every card is good there would be too many viable strategies (unpredictable meta) and cards wouldn't have or retain any value (high #of substitutes=low demand=low prices).
March 3, 2015 1:25 a.m.
...I understand that. It's not like I'm expecting to get a fantastic deck every time I draft. And I do my homework. I watch draft video's, I find out which are the best cards for which colors and strategies, and I find out why. That doesn't help, at all, when you open up trash rares and the people to your left and right are drafting the same colors and the best cards in the packs you open. Even if you get out of that situation with a half baked deck, it doesn't matter at all if your opponent slams a Mastery of the Unseen on turn two, or has a Sorin, solemn visitor. It adds a second layer of variability to a game that already hinges on random card draws. And I don't like that.
March 3, 2015 1:32 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #10
If the people on both sides of you are drafting the same colors you are, you should pick up on the signals they send and know to get out of the color.
If you lose to Mastery of the Unseen, it's your fault for not drafting good sideboard cards.
Same for planeswalkers.
Drafting is extremely skill intensive, and almost never comes down to "oh he just opened better cards than I did." I've beaten as many Wingmate Rocs (The best limited rare in Khans) as I've drafted myself. Your deck is more than just one rare/mythic.
All I hear is "I'm a bad drafter so I want to blame variance." Nope, doesn't work that way.
March 3, 2015 1:38 a.m.
I'm not into drafting. No real reason. Just not my style. I still do it every once in a while, but usually don't do amazingly. I over think the shit out of it and end up drafting really poorly lol.
Some people just prefer constructed I think. Comes down to what kinda player you are.
March 3, 2015 1:47 a.m.
I'm better at Sealed than Draft, but I want to get better at both. Being competent at draft is a good MTG skill.
March 3, 2015 1:53 a.m.
You clearly didn't read what I wrote. If the people to the side of you are pulling the same color of cards as the few playable cards in the packs you are opening, there isn't a good option. You can A) pick up the dregs that come your way, or b) change to a different color, pick up the dregs from people 2-4 seats away, and use the mediocre at best cards in your packs. And what point is there in switching colors if you don't even have access to bombs? I mean sure, it's easy to make the decision to switch colors if you see a rare or two in that color come your way, but sometimes nothing comes.
Also, losing to planeswalkers and stuff like Mastery of the Unseen is not all about having the right sideboard cards. If they have only one enchantment, how much enchantment removal do you side in? Two, three? Those become dead draws if they never even play their card. And "sideboard cards for planeswalkers"? Don't make me laugh, there aren't any. There are creature, artifact and enchantment kill spells, and that's it. You have to hit with with your creatures. If you have mediocre creatures and mediocre kill spells, then it's hard to get a good board presence going. Without a good board presence, you probably lose if they slam a walker.
I get that you are passionate about drafting. That doesn't mean your opinion on it is automatically correct or mine is automatically wrong. There are clearly situations where your position isn't winnable if they slam a walker, or some other sort of bomb onto the board. And if the draft turned out that you weren't able to pick up a couple of good cards, then you never really had a chance in the matchup anyway.
March 3, 2015 1:58 a.m.
derKochXXL says... #14
Wow, I never imagined there to be people who were so reluctant to drafting. I really love it.
March 3, 2015 2:15 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #15
I don't draft often. I prefer constructed, non-rotating formats.
March 3, 2015 3:04 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #16
I draft whenever possible and when I'm not drafting, I prefer the constructed, rotating format.
I'm the Yang to JexInfinite's Ying.
March 3, 2015 3:48 a.m.
Tomahawk-Bang says... #18
I have started drafting in 2011 with a Scars of Mirrodin block draft (SOM-MBS-NPH) and I am loving it. Since then my local playgroup of 6 people and I have found drafting to be the most fun format for us and are now playing draft on a weekly basis. We have reduced our playtimes for EDH drastically. We like to draft a broad variety of sets so over the last 3 years I have been hunting for a lot of old sealed products for our drafts. At the moment I own full draft packages for triple ISD, ISD-ISD-DKA, Alara block, Kamigawa block, triple Coldsnap and at least one sealed booster box from every set since Scars of Mirrodin onward. We also do chaos drafts every once in a while or some weird block drafts like 6-block core set drafts (6 players, one gets 3 boosters M10, next gets 3 boosters from M11, next gets 3 boosters from M12, and so on)
I guess that one of the reasons that we have been drawn to drafting is that every other format we played before became a race for who was willing to spend the most money for his decks. You don't have that kind of problem when you draft as everybody spends the same amount of money on his 3 boosters. We also find that drafting is a very skill intensive format where a lot of things need to be taken into acount while drafting and deckbuilding: Watch and remember the cards you pass, know when to hatepick or not, look out for signals and all the while try to build a deck that has the best chances of winning...
To put some competitiveness into our drafts we're keeping records of all of our drafts and everybody pays a small fee in cash at the beginning of each draft. At the end of each year the player with the best record over the last 12 months gets to keep the pot. Also at the end of each draft all rares and foils are put on the table and the winner of the draft gets the first pick, runner up the second pick, and so on.
March 3, 2015 5:05 a.m.
I love to draft. That and edh is all I play. I dont usually buy packs, so this is the only time I get the chance to open trading fodder, as most high $ standard cards are not good in the decks I currently run. I placed the last 3 weeks, and used the store credit for Taiga for my shattergang brothers deck.
March 3, 2015 7:09 a.m.
filledelanuit says... #20
I don't draft very often. Limited is one of the most skill intensive formats and requires you to be very proficient. I consider myself to be a good modern and legacy player but I am absolutely horrible at limited formats. Midrange slug fests are a very different beast than the combo and control decks of other formats. However I still love limited even though I don't play it that often.
Also, drafting booster box is much more interesting than just cracking all of the packs, at least in my opinion.
March 3, 2015 7:56 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #21
"And "sideboard cards for planeswalkers"? Don't make me laugh,"
DespiseDiplomacy of the WastesBurn Spellsetc.
Whoops, looks like you're wrong again.
Though to be fair, it is true that during a game, there will be board states where a planeswalker will seal the game up. If you're incredibly behind, for example. The thing is, this is true of constructed Magic as well, so I don't know why you even bring it up.
Also, you're constructing this scenario where you don't see any playable cards in any color, at all, and can only get scraps. That doesn't actually happen in draft. The amount of good cards is often high enough that good things are going to table to an extent. The exception to this are sets like FRF, where the commons are usually pretty bad, but that's balanced out by a set like KTK where the commons are on a more even power level.
Again, this stems from a failure on your part to pick up signals. Do you know why you never see pros complaining about the variance in draft? Because they have the skill to make a good draft deck out of what seem like a situation where there is none. (Protip: You can't always play the first rare you take)
It's funny, because you admit to almost never drafting, and yet seem to know exactly how drafts break down all of the time. If you practiced drafting more, you'd see these problems you complain of objectively don't exist.
March 3, 2015 8:51 a.m.
I work a lot of Friday evenings, but I really, really like drafting when I can. If I could get a decent number of friends to go in on drafting a booster box I would, but we all have wonky work schedules so it's hard to get enough of us together at once.
I tend to draft moderately well, I'd say? Last time I drafted was for Fate, and I did get lucky on some rares, I'll admit, but there were a ton of good cards I passed up on too.
Sealed is fun as well, although I got blown out at the Fate prerelease - I picked a Temur box but should've honestly gone Abzan with all the good cards I got in my boosters and the good Temur cards I got mostly being mono-green. Maybe could've gone four color even.
March 3, 2015 10:43 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #23
I like drafting as a way to keep up with the current sets and get to play them, Wizards puts a ton of effort into making limited play good for each set, whether it's sealed or draft. I don't have the time to put into standard, so if I'm not doing modern/legacy I'm probably drafting. It's fun for a lot of people but it also takes the most practice and that's something that most people don't have the desire to do, which is fine. There are plenty of formats for people to play, just b/c you don't like one doesn't make you a bad or "real" magic player. Draft definitely takes the most practice and skill and some people don't have time/money to.
March 3, 2015 10:50 a.m.
notamardybum says... #24
yeah im not a big drafter, but a ton of people love doing so. there are a few lgs near me that only draft on fnm
March 3, 2015 12:09 p.m.
Thoughtseize like effects are called hand disruption , not answers. So no, those don't "answer" planeswalkers on the board. They do not deal with the problem once it's already in play. And burn is not dedicated planeswalker removal, and if you've had to use it to survive against something else, like one of the couple dozen cards in khans of tarkir that take over a game by itself, then you're out of luck.
I never said I didn't have much experience with draft. I said I don't like to draft because I hate it, not that I haven't drafted a lot in the past. I have won a couple of drafts at fnm over the last year, which I do when I want to take a break from standard for a week. I wouldn't be making these comments if I didn't have experience with the format.
And lastly, draft and sealed are not constructed formats, they are limited formats. That is a fact.
March 3, 2015 12:32 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #26
If they deal with a card, they answer it. It's like saying a counterspell (Another viable SB card) doesn't answer anything because it's useless once it's in play. Yes, Hero's Downfall is a better answer than Thoughtseize, but Thoughtseize is still an answer. Limited is about making the most out of the tools you have, so you SB in Thoughtseize, even if it's less optimal than other cards you don't have.
No shit draft is a limited format. I'm just saying that if a trend occurs in both limited, and constructed (Read: Not draft or sealed), it's not worth pointing out as a flaw in limited.
March 3, 2015 2:18 p.m.
FNM at my LGS is draft for the 4-5 weeks following a new release, and then alternates between Constructed and Draft.
So typically people around here play about 60% draft 20% Standard and 20% Modern... only counting competitive levels, of course.
However, if a larger event is coming soon, they may sway events towards the upcoming format. - i.e.: if people at my LGS are planning on attending a GP that will be Standard they will try to convince the judges at my LGS to run more Standard tournaments.
March 3, 2015 2:37 p.m.
Kingzerker says... #28
There is a very slight advantage to be had by opening a bomb rare or walker, this is true. However, you're not likely to see or play the card every game. While that part truly comes down to luck, it's also comparable to playing a constructed deck and getting paired against your deck's worst possible matchup. Someone else opening a planeswalker, you getting paired up with them, and them playing it shouldn't really bother you any more than playing a deck that folds to burn/boss sigh in standard. That's just the way the game works sometimes. Good/bad luck exists just like good/bad matchups do.
I understand preferences, but it's hard to argue that either limited or constructed is bad and shouldn't be considered in design/development. The fact that you can play MTG in so many ways is one of the reasons I love it!
March 3, 2015 2:37 p.m.
You can choose when to use a counterspell and what to target with it. You get to make a decision on what it targets. If you have it in your hand, you can play around their planeswalker if you know they have one. Hand disruption is limited to getting lucky with what's in their hand at the time. And no, it's not an answer.
Kingzerker I never argued that limited was bad. I stated I hated the format. After reading TurboFagoot's first post, I stated that I disagreed with some of it, and he in response, dismissed my argument with a "all I hear is i'm a bad draft player so I want to blame variance" He is, of course, entitled to his opinion, but he's presenting his opinion as a fact and that is what has me annoyed. I never stated that I didn't know how to draft well, or that I couldn't play the format competently. I can. I just hate it anyway.
March 3, 2015 3:13 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #30
It's not like you run it out turn one and hope for the best. One would save their Thoughtseize until the turn right before their opponent could play their bomb. Yes, it relies on some luck, but it does answer whatever card it trades for. Discard spells are one for one trades in the same way a removal spell is. And if their bomb isn't a permanent (Duneblast, etc.) it trades for it.
We can argue semantics all you want, but when you Thoughtseize a planeswalker, you dealt with it for that game. (Unless they have two, which is just unlikely in a limited event)
Something answering a threat some of the time does not mean it's never an answer, like you make it out to be.
You're getting caught up in the semantics of the argument. It is not an answer in the same way a Hero's Downfall is, but it is an answer.
March 3, 2015 6:07 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #31
Sounds like a fair deal, JexInfinite. Our unborn lovechild, Captain Infinite, will either hate or love each Magic format. Brilliant!
March 3, 2015 6:13 p.m.
Sounds like it is a personal thing, and that TappedOut people do draft. Cool.
Drafting is a game in and of itself, specific cards and rules aside. A game I have no interest in playing. The playstyle and cards that I like are impossible to play with in draft, so I don't draft. I don't enjoy making the best of a bad situation, which is what limited inherently is.
March 3, 2015 10:29 p.m.
I love limited! I usually do really well at it but I get pretty lucky with pulls so I'm not sure I can really gloat.
March 4, 2015 4:20 a.m.
I don't draft as often as I'd like, but I really enjoy it.
March 5, 2015 10:55 p.m.
AngryBearTony says... #35
I personally love draft and sealed. Wish I could participate in each more often. Hell, I'd draft every weekend if I could. The LGS I visit had 5 pods running at the same time at 8:00 pm last week if that's any indication of how popular this block has been so far, and I don't see that changing with DTK coming soon. Draft might be favorite way to play.
March 9, 2015 7:13 p.m.
One thing I would add that I really enjoy about limited is discovering new interactions that I hadn't seen before. Limited will force you to play cards you wouldn't otherwise give a second look, and I've definitely been inspired for some fun deck ideas due to crazy things I've seen happen in these games.
March 11, 2015 2:45 a.m.
insertcleverid says... #37
Limited is the best! Teaches card evaluation, deck building and and technical nuts & bolts play. There is no faster way to improve your game. Also I find the people at drafts tend to be helpful and nice. More so than those insufferable net-decking douches you meet at constructed events lol j/k.
TurboFagoot says... #2
I'm a huge drafter, and am very happy that they're focusing on limited play. Believe me when I say you are in the minority.
March 3, 2015 12:39 a.m.