Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood
General forum
Posted on Dec. 15, 2013, 11:47 a.m. by Prevailed
Would this create cause them to die if you swung with a lifelink creature, Swing for 2 lifelink they take 2 I gain 2 more and it goes on forever till they die?
Epochalyptik says... #3
Rules questions should be asked in the Q&A.
Yes. You actually don't even need to use a lifelinker. You just need an opponent to lose life.
When your opponent loses life, Exquisite Blood 's ability will trigger. When that ability resolves, Sanguine Bond 's ability will trigger. The two abilities will trigger one another ad nauseam until your opponent dies or the loop is interrupted.
Note that if an effect is preventing your opponent from losing the game or preventing his or her life total from changing, this loop will continue indefinitely and the game will end in a draw.
December 15, 2013 12:03 p.m.
@Epochalyptik: I've seen this question quite a few times now, and I was wondering if you know of any plans for a FAQ for rules questions sometime down the line?
It would probably save everyone a lot of time if you could look up basic magic rulings and how the game works in general (in particular the stack) instead of making a new question each time.
December 15, 2013 12:19 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
@Dallie: I've thought about it every now and then, but I don't think it would actually work the way we want it to. People don't even check the Gatherer pages for answers to FAQs. I doubt they'd check a site resource, and it would be more difficult to organize and navigate the site resource anyway.
December 15, 2013 12:23 p.m.
@Epochalyptik: I see where you're coming from. I like to go to my inner wonderland sometimes where everyone uses the gatherer pages, and where I have a playset of each of the Shock lands.
December 15, 2013 12:44 p.m.
smash10101 says... #10
Epochalyptik: If they have something preventing their life total from changing, they wouldn't loose any life to Sanguine Bond and therefore Exquisite Blood would not trigger. Therefore no infinite loop.
Also, I like your wonderland. Can I visit sometime?
December 15, 2013 4:37 p.m.
@MrKnify: No... I told you it was modest. Though there's a pony ride area, so we got that going for us, which is nice.
@smash10101: Anytime! Just bring a print of all the gatherer pages, and you'll be allowed in!
December 15, 2013 4:39 p.m.
smash10101 says... #12
Well, the semester is almost over and I haven't used most of my print quota. May as well start printing.
December 15, 2013 4:41 p.m.
i have to disagree with the majority of the posters here, including Epochalyptik. (still a lot of respect for you though man)
this situation falls under what is known as the infinite loop rules. according to the 2013 rules this situation would be handled by rule # 104.4b and the game would end in a draw. a more complete explanation of why would be in the 2009 rules (obsolete but they broke it down barney style to explain each situation as to why it would end in a draw so i use it as a reference) and that rule number would be rule 421. any time you play an infinite loop that has no player control. for example a may statement or a tap action, something like that. the game immediately ends in a draw. i hate to be the rules lawyer here, but ive seen infinite loops used and abused before in my playgroup (winner = whoever got their loop combo out first. god that was no fun)and i went on a mission to find the legality of loops. i hope this was helpful.
December 17, 2013 3:37 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #14
Looking more closely at the rule you quote (104.4b), you'll see it specifies "with no way to stop". This loop of mandatory actions does stop, because eventually each opponent will have lost the game for having 0 or less life.
December 17, 2013 5:20 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
@flinx: Your assessment would be accurate, but there's something you forgot. Because Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood operate on triggered abilities, and because state-based actions check after a spell or ability resolves on the stack, the loop will not go on indefinitely unless something is explicitly preventing an opponent from losing the game.
December 17, 2013 5:42 p.m.
-laughs- i stand corrected. i forgot about the state based check. the situations im used to where this occurs run heavily toward platinum angel type solutions. i guess i didnt have enough coffee this morning when i was checking the forums. sorry if caused any confusion then
InconspicuousPotato says... #2
Yes. In fact, any change in life would kill them. Because if you gain life, Sanguine Bond makes them lose life, and if they lose life, Exquisite Blood makes you gain life. But back to the point, yes it does work.
December 15, 2013 12:02 p.m.