How to Shuffle
General forum
Posted on Oct. 24, 2010, 1:33 p.m. by nani75185
I hadn't thought of this before, but how do you shuffle? Stack or Regular? Sleeve or Sleeveless? Are there other ways to shuffle? I am just curious to see what there is. And is one type of shuffling better or worse than others for: randomization, card preservation, etc. ?
xeratheenigma says... #3
if you want to keep your cards in a pretty decent condition its best to put them in sleeves (though some people are able to keep their cards in good condition without sleeves)
as for pile shuffling i prefer 5-7 piles.
when i first build a deck i like to "mana weave" before i shuffle for the first time (mana weaving is alternating between two nonland cards then a land card followed by two more nonland cards repeat this process until you run out of land or nonland cards then put excess cards in the deck randomingly) though most places do not condone "manaweaving" in tournaments.
October 24, 2010 3:49 p.m.
BlueWolf15 says... #4
i usually riffle shuffle a couple times, then pile shuffle into 7 at least twice. sometimes i will cut the deck myself, but regardless of whether i personally do it, i always have my opponent cut my deck.
as xeratheenigma said, i usually manaweave or manashuffle after first making a deck. but i will manashuffle after 6-7 matches each match being best 2/3. the only thing that i always make sure my opponent sees, is me riffle shuffling again after manashuffling.
October 24, 2010 9:32 p.m.
Pile shuffling is the easiest for me. I do 7 piles too :D
October 24, 2010 9:58 p.m.
MiracleAttack says... #6
I used to pile shuffle my cards face up. I was told at a pre-release that I could be disqualified from tourneys if I shuffled this way since I could theoretically be stacking my deck. I just wanted to make sure my deck didn't have clumps, but I can totally understand the reasoning here. Just a note for people playing in non-casual settings.
October 25, 2010 3:27 a.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #7
Best way to shuffle for me is to first manaweave. Most of the time I do this before the tournament begins. 90% of my decks have 20 creatures, 20 other spells and 20 land, which means I usually do a combination of:
Creature, Other, Land, Other, Creature, Land.
This gives even distribution of cards, and for my Naya aggro deck, it means Bloodbraid Elf won't always cascade into a Lightning Bolt when it isn't needed.
Once that's done, I typically riffle shuffle twice, then pile shuffle in 4 or 8 piles. Best way to randomize the cards is to check the bottom 10 cards of your deck. If your cards are clumped repeat the process. Most of my opponents don't mind as long as I let them shuffle and split my deck too. It adds a level of insult to injury, knowing that your opponent dealt you a winning hand! :)
October 25, 2010 8:48 a.m.
according to Topics in contemporary probability and its applications by James Laurie Snell, for a 52 card deck of playing cards, 7 is the sweet spot for the common riffle shuffle to randomize a deck.
However : a study by Purdue university observed that (in a competitive Bridge environment) that certain teams were only shuffling 2 or 4 times. The reason : there was a significant probability of predictable "trends" in the results of inadequate shuffling.
October 25, 2010 9:07 a.m.
Apparently pile shuffling is legal for events, but it has to be face down. I'll rifle a few times, then pile shuffle in 7 piles. Most people are fine; if some people get antsy rifle it a few more times and let them cut.
October 26, 2010 4:41 p.m.
SupremeAlliesCommander says... #10
The only shuffling precautions I take are to make sure I don't clump my lands immediately after a game. If you just scoop all your lands, I think you'll have a harder time of breaking up the clumps.
Instead, I'll take the lands in front of me and turn them face down. Then I'll pile shuffle the cards from my grave, hand, and battlefield on top of those lands. Then I stack the piles and rifle shuffle them into my library.
That process creates a distribution similar to manaweaving, but without being too obvious about it. I do have to be careful with certain decks. My 8-land stompy will often run on a single forest, but I think this works fine with the typical 24 land decks.
November 1, 2010 11:56 a.m.
Thank you guys for this thread, it's been something I've been wondering about for a while. :)
May 6, 2011 9:56 p.m.
KrimsonNekros says... #12
I usually play with out sleeves unless i have some really good and valuable rare in the deck. As a result my standard shuffle is to farrow shuffle two to three times before pile shuffling and then farrow one or two more times. I find that even without "manaweaving", i usually get good mana distribution throughout my deck this way.
mistergreen527 says... #2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuffling
I play without sleeves. Before each game, I always riffle-shuffle my deck at least three times, and I always do it an odd number of times. If I keep getting bad hands with a deck, then I'll pile shuffle, using five piles.
When I first make a deck, I pile-shuffle my deck face-up. I put them into five piles and I never put a land on top of another land. I feel that this helps distribute the land evenly throughout the deck.
I can't remember where I learned this, but I've heard that the key to randomization is to use prime numbers. So, whenever you shuffle your deck, you should do so a prime number of times (which is why I usually do it 3, 5, or 7 times). Similarly, when you pile-shuffle, you should put them into a prime number of piles (which is why I use 5 piles).
Interesting subject. I hope more people reply with there techniques.
October 24, 2010 3:32 p.m.