Card Sleeves: KMC vs Dragon Shields
Gear forum
Posted on Nov. 8, 2015, 1:05 a.m. by ToolmasterOfBrainerd
I am currently using double sleeved dragon shields and the corners on all of the cards are bending. They're also hard to shuffle. I've had them for a few months, and I'd say I do a couple games a week. I am happy with the durability and protection of the shields, but the corner bending is disappointing. When shuffling them, they stick together despite that I clean them about every 2 months when they collect dirt. They still insist on being a pain to shuffle and accordingly are getting damaged. I feel like I got a bad pack of shields (I had 2 sleeves split so far, which I've heard is uncommon), but I would like to avoid the corners from bending and the stickiness if possible.
I've heard that KMC hyper matte sleeves are high quality and better with double sleeving. I've also heard they're much easier to shuffle. Does anyone know how they compare in corner bending? I'd like to know that they're going to last and be easy to shuffle before I switch over.
I know most of the problem is my shuffling style. I think I'm holding them too tight when mash-shuffling, which is something I'll work on, but with the stickiness I have to apply some force to get them to cooperate, which is annoying. No cards have been damaged yet, which is good, but I'd like to avoid that if possible.
One more thing: which color? I've heard that the color makes a difference on the quality. Anyone know which color is the most durable? I'd rather not use white and I won't use clear because dirt is more visible on white and not all my cards are mint condition so clear would allow me to be called on marked sleeves.
Thanks!
I've had green kmc hyper mattes on my edh deck for like 9 months now, and they're holding up well. I typically play several times a week and shuffle quite often because of fetches and tutors. I haven't had a single card split, find relative ease of shuffle, and rarely find any kind of grime on the sleeves. They're also super easy to double sleeve.
November 8, 2015 1:23 a.m.
I've used both normal and matte Dragon Shields for ages. I've torn maybe 4 out of the 1000+ sleeves I've used regularly for the past 3 years. No issues at all. Highly recommend Matte Dragon Shields, btw.
The traditional Dragon Shields are known for collecting grime over time. They need to be cleaned every once in a while. Playing on top of a mat helps tremendously.
November 8, 2015 1:29 a.m.
zyphermage says... #5
I'm no expert by any means and have no facts regarding the 2, just my experiences. I ended up resleeving several decks from the dragon shields to kmc hyper mattes.
November 8, 2015 1:31 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #6
They're both fine in my experience. It's good to keep your hands clean when playing, this of course boosts the longevity of your sleeves. The only reason my card sleeves get dirty is that I can't control whether my opponents at events have clean hands. It's pretty incredible how fast your sleeves can grime up when people with dirty/oily hands repeatedly have to cut and shuffle your deck. The only way to remedy this is to get new sleeves -- once dirtied it's pretty well impossible to return a sleeve to pristine condition. I guess this is why it's smart to pack spare sleeves at long events.
November 8, 2015 1:43 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #7
Someone told me that matte dragon shields split easy, which has me nervous, but you're saying otherwise and you have more experience than he did. How do the matte shields compare to the KMC hyper mattes?
The corner that I mash with is being bent on all of the sleeves. The other 3 corners are fine, but the lower left corner is being bent up when the card is face-up on the table.
I use a playmat now, but I won it at BFZ prerelease so I have played with no mat for months prior.
Any ideas on color? I currently have pink dragon shields, and I've hard that color makes a difference on shields. Is the same true for KMC's and if so, which colors are preferred if I end up going in that direction?
Thank you everybody!
November 8, 2015 1:44 a.m.
Dragonshield Mattes are great. Very impressed with them. I honestly don't think color has anything to do with durabilitiy. I've had many different colors of both Dragonshield and KMC, and they all are about the same. I would say get KMC for a 60 card deck and Dragonshield for Commander.
November 8, 2015 1:53 a.m.
I'm with vault entirely. I have a cube inside the new mattes. I will say that if the sleeves get bent somehow, it's easier for them to retain the bend in the matte than in the original ones but that's a case where the sleeves were clearly mistreated. No problems tearing for me. I bought 10 packs of different colors among my friends when they first came out and I had tested matte black ones out. They're used for a variety of decks by people with different shuffling styles among my EDH group. If I didn't have such a massive amount of dragonshields of various kinds, I'd probably use KMCs more. They're still significantly easier to double sleeve.
November 8, 2015 2:05 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #10
Thanks for the insight everyone!
I am playing modern double-sleeved, so I'm leaning towards KMC's.
Here's what I've gathered between here and other online threads:
Dragon Shield Mattes are easier to see foils through, are sometimes pretty tight when double sleeving, but are otherwise high quality
KMC hyper mattes fit better with double sleeving, are of equal quality, but can make it harder to see foils.
I don't have any foils yet, although I'm starting to alter and get foils. Fitting double sleeves better is enticing, and I did see in a video that the matte shields catch ever so slightly while shuffling, which is a problem for a bad shuffler like myself. Because of that I'm leaning towards KMC hyper mattes, but it sounds like I'll be well-off either way, which is a good feeling.
November 8, 2015 2:30 a.m.
really what kind of environment do you manage to make your card sleeves sticky and dirt collecting, try keeping your hands clean and dry and play with a playmat, doing all of these will help ensure even a decently produced pack of dragonshields lasts for years. I'd also suggest whenever getting a new pack to break em in with about an hour straight of shuffling perfectly. Also when "mash" shuffling you don't want the corner to be the hitting point, instead sort of parallel the two stacks and sort of swing the corner of the top stack into the bottom this way you're not putting full force of the shuffle into the edge of the card/sleeve and instead smooths the force throughout the lower half (also jamming the edge into the broad side of the bottom stack is just inviting any sleeve to get sliced open).
November 8, 2015 2:38 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #12
I use exclusively dragon shields and have never had a problem with the corner bending. This is probably because I have no need to double sleeve since both LGS I go to have a rule against open liquid containers on the table and my friends and I know how to not spill drinks. I do hear that KMCs are better for double sleeving because they have a looser fit and I'm assuming that the already tight fit of dragon shields and the added tension of the inner sleeve is what makes yours bend on the intersecting corner.
November 8, 2015 7:40 a.m.
I swear by kmc. I've only used kmc for slew bing and some of my friends do use dragon shields, I've always found that my kmc sleeves shuffle better, last longer, still have the nice sharp corners and overall look cleaner. The dragon shields though slide easily on the mat and I sometimes have trouble picking up single cards from the surface of the mat. Also my kmcs haven't ripped at all in a year of use about ~250 sleeves while the dragon shields have 1 or 2 ripped sleeves. This is in heavy use, about 9-10 games a week.
November 8, 2015 11:46 a.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #14
KMC are really great - I've had both regular DS and KMC on my Kaalia deck and the KMCs have been way better - they're way easier to shuffle, stay cleaner, and they double sleeve perfectly. I've had no issues with bending or splitting, but I didn't have those problems with the Dragonshields either.
November 8, 2015 2:10 p.m.
I just bought a pack of Dex sleeves for on of my modern decks, and I think i like them more than KMCs, which were my go-to sleeves for a long time. A full deck double sleeves with SB is noticeably thinner than a deck and sb with kmc or dragon shields. They shuffle very smoothly. I cant really tell ya much about grime on them, Ive only played 4 games with the deck since i sleeved it up, but theyre still spotless for now. theyre a pretty underground company for now I think, but they are really good sleeves and i expect we will be seeing more of them around in the next year or two.
November 8, 2015 2:24 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #17
So I watched the tolarian community college card sleeve reviews. Their take on the Dex sleeves was that the shuffle feel was great, and they were thinner, but they tended to tear with a lot of use and weren't as protective as the KMC's. The overall consensus that they were better than most sleeves, and shuffle amazing, but are not quite as durable as KMC's. If you're a good and careful shuffler, unlike myself, you'll be in good shape, but I am a bad shuffler (working on that). I have an ultra pro magnetic deck box (those things are pretty big) so the size of the sleeves is of no concern to me.
I have noticed that my cards sit high in the shields and rise up with use, so I regularly have to push them down. Since KMC's double sleeve really well, I think I'll switch over to them. That's really the deciding factor for me, because it sounds like DS and KMC are of equally high quality. Thanks for all the input everyone! It's very helpful!
November 8, 2015 4:10 p.m.
zyphermage says... #18
Yeah I also watched that video. He also said that the Dex brand was made in the same factory as KMC but functionally a different company. They are different like you said. It is double sleeve and sturdiness vs better look, feel, and shuffle.
Epochalyptik says... #2
In what way are your sleeves bending?
November 8, 2015 1:06 a.m.