Vehicles
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Oct. 28, 2013, 3:26 p.m. by cupofnoodles
I thought that vehicles would be a great new addition to the set I was working on. Vehicle is a new sub-type of artifact, similar to Equipment. With Vehicles, creatures you control can "board" the vehicle if it has an empty seat. Once boarded, anything else that might be attached to the creature falls off (counters/enchantments/equipment/etc), the creature loses all abilities, and can no longer be targetted by opponents. However, the creature now has access to the abilities of the specific seat in the vehicle that they boarded. Seats also operate independently of each other, meaning that each seat (if boarded by a creature) can tap to activate on it's own.
Also, tapping a seat to use it's ability can be done at any time an instant could be played. Lastly, if the vehicle is destroyed for whatever reason (Naturalize , Shatter , etc) then the boarded creature(s) will "fall off", and regain any abilities they had. Attached stuff (enchantments/counters/equipment/etc) will still remain removed from the creature, however.
Other notes are that, boarding a vehicle can only be done as a sorcery, similar to Equip. Also, although the "boarded" creature is no longer able to be targetted by opponents, the seat that the creature occupies can be targetted with certain specific cards, such as this one below -
If an opponent was able to successfully board an enemy vehicle with Cunning Hijacker, then the creature that was previously boarded to that seat would fall off, and Cunning Hijacker would now occupy the seat. This means that the opponent now has access to whatever abilities the seat has, that was boarded by Cunning Hijacker. The owner of the vehicle can also counter with cards that target seats too, such as if the owner had their own Cunning Hijacker to re-take the seat.
About Cunning Hijacker itself, I wanted the card to be usable even if the opponent had no vehicles on the field. A 2/1 body with haste for 2 can still be good in the early game, even if the second ability is not yet relevant.
Epochalyptik says... #3
Needlessly complex and difficult to execute.
Some things don't translate well to implementation.
October 28, 2013 4:02 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #4
I like the picture for the assault ship...
I think its a cool idea, if you could refine, reword, and rework it. Specifically, it has a lot of stuff that players need to keep track of, and that could get confusing, really quick.
October 28, 2013 4:40 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
@vampirelazarus: I don't think there's an effective way to rehash this design without it becoming a nerfed version of equip.
The main ideas that characterize this mechanic are:
- Multiple creatures can be attached to the same vehicle
- The creatures lose their abilities while attached to the vehicle
- Each seat in the vehicle functions independently
- Creatures are safe while attached to the vehicle
It's impossible to simplify the design of the mechanic without sacrificing at least one of those ideas. The concepts themselves are also radically dissimilar from existing mechanics, so there isn't really any groundwork for something like this.
Canonically speaking, there are also very, very few examples of "vehicles" in the multiverse. The Skyship Weatherlight and Predator, perhaps the two most prominent (and, as far as I know, the only) vehicles in the multiverse were implemented without such a mechanic (see: Skyship Weatherlight and Predator, Flagship , respectively).
October 28, 2013 6:17 p.m.
I am intrigued by your ideas. I wonder a few things. First, is the targeted seating important. ie: Can the first creature fill seat 1?, while the second seat 2? etc. This could help with some power issues and create a scaling effect to work towards.Example: [Two Seater]Imprint- 2: If there are less than two counters on Two Seater exile target creature you control and put an occupied counter on Two Seater. If Two Seater leaves play return the exiled cards to the battlefield under their owners control. 2t: Ability activate this ability only if there is an occupied counter on Two Seater2t: Ability activate this ability only there are 2 occupied counters on Two Seater
October 28, 2013 10:12 p.m.
I like the idea. Perhaps seating could be arranged by having corners of cards overlap and some visual help on the vehicle corners. What if the vehicle had power and toughness so that it could block, etc....
October 29, 2013 11:42 a.m.
cupofnoodles says... #8
Yah, I have a similar idea to your corners idea Korombos. I greatly appreciate all the feedback everyone has provided, and I'm going to take them into consideration. I'm very new to card design, but one thing I learned early on is that I must be open to criticism, and be willing to change if the design just isn't working. However, I do want to try one last idea before I start making changes, by introducing my intended card face for the vehicle design.
I originally designed vehicles to be a new type of card, similar to how planeswalkers or flip cards (both kamigawa and innistrad versions) employed the idea of deviation from the classic card design. With all this power that Magic Set Editor gives to designers, I figured doing something new would be the most interesting. Anyway, I'll update in a little while with my card face idea and a few visual aids to illustrate how a player would use the vehicle cards on the battlefield.
Thank you very much everyone for your feedback, Korombos,8bitJesus, Epochalyptik, vampirelazarus, and raithe000, and I'll be looking forward to any new comments you have to give when I update the cards =)
October 29, 2013 9:46 p.m.
cupofnoodles says... #9
The way I designed the seating, is that the player would pay the "Board" cost (similar to Equip cost) and then choose which seat that they want the creature to board. So a vehicle could have all empty seats, and if the player so wished, they could have a creature board seat 2 or seat 3 first. Any seat they want can be boarded as long as they have a creature to fill the seat and enough mana to pay the Board cost. Eventually the goal is to have all seats filled for maximum output from the vehicle, but how and when those individual seats get filled are left up to the player to decide.
October 29, 2013 9:52 p.m.
I agree a graphic would be the optimal way to inform players which creatures are in which seats. I couldn't think of a good way to show this in my example that is why I chose to fill seats in a predetermined order, to create less confusion. I do look forward to seeing the new design.
October 30, 2013 8:19 p.m.
cupofnoodles says... #11
Hey everyone, I'm back with the promised update. This is going to take a bit of time to explain, so please bear with me. Also, I apologize in advance for the post being long and hard on the eyes. Anyway, here is the updated card face design I had in mind -
I added some triangular visual aids to the card faces to denote seats on the vehicle. Specifically, Seat 1 will always be on the left card side, Seat 2 will always be at the top, and Seat 3 will always be on the right card side. As shown below -
The idea here is to create a uniform method of utilizing seats, and how they are represented on the battlefield. I'll explain how creatures are shown to be equipped on the vehicle next -
In this diagram, the player had decided to pay the Board cost, and have their creature board Seat 3 of the vehicle. Seat 3 is now available for use at any time an instant can be played, since the creature is in the untapped position.
In this diagram, the player has decided to use Seat 3, and that choice is reflected by the creature attached to that seat being tapped. The seat can't be used again during this turn, unless the player has a way of untapping the seat (not the creature).
Please note how the vehicle itself does not tap, it is the seats on the vehicle that tap in order to use abilities, but they must be boarded by a creature first in order to be usable.
In this diagram, the player has managed to successfully board a creature to every seat in the vehicle, so all seats are now available for use.The player can use all three seats at any time, or they can use the seats individually as they choose.
This is the result if the player has chosen to tap all seats during their turn, and how the vehicle would be represented on the battlefield with all seats tapped. During the player's next turn, all seats on the vehicle will untap and be available for use again.
So, that's my idea for vehicles. I figured I'd keep the card face as simplistic as possible to avoid detracting attention from card wording, and easy to understand. What do you guys think?
November 2, 2013 7:27 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #12
The whole tapping thing is a little confusing. When I first read it, I thought it was to tap the vehicle. Its only now that I realize its the creature you tap.
November 2, 2013 9:45 p.m.
Some1TookMyName says... #13
5The EnterpiseArtifact - VehicleIndestructibleThe Enterprise has X seatsSeat X - X: Exile The Enterprise and X nontoken creatures you control, return them to the battlefield at the beginning of the next end step with Half of X (rounded down) 3/3 white and black Klingnon creature tokens with haste."You have the bridge number 1"Who cares if vehicles are not realistic or wouldnt fit into the game, its fun. If I werent at work or on a phone I would make the card, but you guys can use your imagination
November 15, 2013 3:26 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #14
What defines X on that? I can't make much sense of that card.
November 16, 2013 1:58 a.m.
That would work, but what about vehicles with more than 4 seats?
November 16, 2013 3:27 a.m.
Some1TookMyName says... #16
x is any number of permanents that seat in the enrerpise
November 16, 2013 4:30 a.m.
Aneximines says... #17
I really like this idea, especially with the "triangular visual aides." I've been toying with this idea recently myself, trying to use things like imprint or weird timing restrictions, but I think you're right that this concept needs its own rules-intensive subtype.
Here are some off-the-top-of-my-head suggestions:
It shouldn't be necessary to have an ability designating the number of seats. It's visually obvious (keep the "Seat 1," "Seat 2" format and the brilliant triangles) and you can bake the mechanics into the rules for the "Vehicle" subtype.
An alternative to "seat" could be "station." Some vehicles may have functions that aren't managed from a chair, and some creatures (like Oozes, or whatever Saprolings are) may not in any sense "sit."
Rather than saying "[cost]: Target creature you control boards a seat of your choice," you should probably just follow Equipment's lead and have a single word -dash cost, like "Board - [cost]" and have the rules for the Vehicle subtype spell out what that means (speaking of which, you should probably remove the word "target" from that, unless you intentionally meant to exclude shrouded creatures from boarding vehicles).
November 18, 2013 7:59 p.m.
cupofnoodles says... #18
Hey guys, sorry I've been gone a while. I really appreciate all the great feedback this design has received from everyone!
Wow, that sounds like a really interesting card, especially the flavor text! I would really like to see that card made! =D
Well, I'm not really sure that a vehicle should have more then four seats, because by then things might start to get a little crazy if the player can fill all of them and use them every turn. A maximum of four seats seems like a fair balance, especially since the vehicles are artifacts and hence can go into any deck (especially token decks =P). Thanks a lot for the encouragement on the design! =D
Wow, those are some really awesome ideas, and are much appreciated! I was kind of perplexed on whether the number of seats should be listed by text, but I agree with you now that you mention it, the text has become obsolete due to the visuals on the card. Station sounds like a great alternative to seats for the reasons you mentioned, too. I think you're also right about using the simpler Board - [cost] wording too, using it will save up a lot of space in the card for other stuff like flavor text =P. I will make these changes immediately to all the vehicles in the set, thanks so much for the awesome insights!
November 28, 2013 3:16 a.m.
Some1TookMyName says... #19
The generator is buggy so I had to change a few things.
raithe000 says... #2
This seems exceedingly complicated. There is no good way to indicate which creature is in which seat, it seems like it would be really hard to balance, and it seems really easy to break with creatures whose abilities you don't want.
October 28, 2013 3:32 p.m.