Did you guys hear about Travis Woo?
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Dec. 8, 2017, 9:55 a.m. by 8vomit
Travis Woo, who is a pro MTG player and was featured by channelfireball, has been banned from sancioned events for a year and lost his sponsorship. This is because of his involvement in a facebook group call "Magic for Bad", which was apparently a home for racism and misogyny among magic players. Woo was an admin. On this group page was a pack 1 pick one chart of women in magic, rating them by their appearance, just to name one of the big things. This facebook group was shut down, presumably by Woo himself when he got the finger pointed at him.
In 2015, Woo also released a video discussing the merits of Hitler and Mein Kampf. In this video he talked about the jews controlling the media and economy, and looked at the german side of WWI and WWII. To be honest the guy sounds pretty scummy to me, and gets more scummy the more I look into him.
So now Im looking for community thoughts an opinions. Are there any other major statements Travis Woo has come out with that I havent found? How do you feel about Woo's statements or even his character its self? Was anyone on tappedout a member of "Magic for Bad"? If so, was the content shared on this group actually that bad? Do you think he deserves this year long ban from MTG? Am I thinking too negatively about the whole thing? Give me thoughts and opinions.
Thanks for looking!
Seen some of his youtube videos but they weren't really for me. He's always pushing his training and calling people bums for not taking the game super seriously.
I'd need to know more facts though before having an opinion either way, but it is an interesting story.
December 8, 2017 2:09 p.m.
I'm sure the game will get along fine without a racist and sexist person playing at the top, for a year.
Maybe a year off will give him time to grow up.
December 8, 2017 3:05 p.m.
Homura_Akemi says... #5
Personally, I'd ban him for a significantly longer period of time. There needs to be an example set for racist and sexist behavior, and one year seems minimal for leading a whole entire discussion.
December 8, 2017 3:20 p.m.
It's a game what you do outside the game shouldn't effect your ability to play the game
December 8, 2017 3:46 p.m.
It's a game what you do outside the game shouldn't effect your ability to play the game
December 8, 2017 3:47 p.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #8
I agree with shadow63 the only exception would be in the case of things like sponsorships and things like that. In that event, the sponsor should make the decision based on what they feel is the best decision for their company. Just because some POS with a negative outlook on life happens to play a game, as long as his opinions dont effect the game during sanctioned tournaments he shouldnt be told he cant play the game. Theres not a code of conduct put in place for the game, except have fun and respect eachother WHILE youre playing it. If the head of the ku-klux-klan was really good at monopoly, I somehow doubt that parker brothers would say that guy cant play because i dont agree with his politics.
December 8, 2017 4:43 p.m.
You just confused sanctioned events with playing the game. He can play all the Magic he wants over the next year, but like any other sanctioned event (professional sports, gaming, etc), the sanctioning body can ban participants for all kinds of reasons, as they see fit. The Parker brothers analogy doesnt fit...just like Ben Johnson can still run all he wants, Lance Armstrong can still bicycle all he wants, Pete Rose can still play baseball all he wants, and Russian Olympic athletes can still do all of their chosen activities...they just cant do those things in venues where the sanctioning bodies that banned them are in charge. Big difference.
December 8, 2017 5:30 p.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #10
No i didnt, i said he shouldnt be banned from sanctioned events. If his sponsors want to take his sponsorships away, that should be up to his sponsors. WOTC (the sanctioners of sanctioned events) shouldnt be able to dictate who plays the game and who doesnt. If he pays the money for the cards, and wants to enter tournaments that should be his perogative. Now, he comes in waving a swastika laden flag, and spewing his hate speech and disrupting the event, kick his ass out of THAT event.
December 8, 2017 5:53 p.m.
Im not arguing with your opinion, Im pointing out your false equivalency of kkk members playing monopoly versus an individual playing Magic in a DCI sanctioned event. They arent the same thing.
WOTC is a company, while DCI is the sanctioning body that controls the competition via their products. Unless Parker brothers created a sanctioning body under which kkk members then attempted to play competitively, then youre comparing apples and oranges.
I personally dont have an opinion, as Id never heard of the guy before today. But just like any sanctioning body, DCI can and did ban the guy for a year from their sanctioned events. That doesnt mean the Magic police are coming to take his collection. Its no different than any other sanctioning body banning a participant in whatever sport or activity theyre a part of - it not a right to be able to participate within an organization. That said, he can still play Magic all he wants, so long as the DCI doesnt control the game. Hopefully thats a bit more clear to my point.
December 8, 2017 7:03 p.m.
Bulldawg1310 says... #12
I understand your point. Do you understand mine? Im stating the guys personal politics and things he does OUTSIDE of MTG should have no bearing on whether or not he can play the game professionally. You used the analogy of MLB and cycling, well, i think its pretty obvious that marshawn lynch smoked weed every day of every offseason from the NFL, he didnt go the games with a blunt in his bag (that we know of) so he was never suspended for it. What someone does outside of their game or whatever should have no bearing on the game they play. If his sponsors find out about it and they want to take his sponsorships away, so be it, but unless hes causing disruption during those sanctioned events, the dci should have no business, sticking their noses in his business.
December 8, 2017 7:22 p.m.
Good riddance, the magical world continues along without him. Caring about the health and happiness of the whole Magic community is not irrelevant to WotC, it's actually quite crucial. They have every right to ban people for any reason they want, even if its not because of actions that happened during a sanctioned game. Its a privately owned company, they don't owe him or anyone else anything we haven't paid for.
December 8, 2017 7:54 p.m.
Bulldawg, I get your point, but when it comes to governing and sanctioning bodies, the only reason they would care about consumers' opinions is if those opinions significantly impacted revenue. You asked about Lynch and smoking weed - which I would agree he's almost certainly doing - but if he hasn't failed a UA test from the sanctioning body, then he doesn't get suspended. Josh Gordon certainly has, multiple times, and has been banned from the NFL for more than a year most recently, so again, your example is anecdotal. Additionally, those organizations have players' unions which attempt to protect their players' rights. Obviously WOTC/DCI doesn't have a players' union, so the DCI is the ultimate authority, and no one's opinion other than their own has any validity to this type of decision.
If your point is then moving toward fairness, then I'd have to agree with you - there is often little, if any, fairness in how sanctioning bodies treat various participants they determine have violated their rules, or the spirit of their competition, for which they then receive penalties/sanctions. Their penalties and decisions can vary significantly, or become very arbitrary, based on similar situations. That said, I'm certainly not going to be supporting someone espousing racist and sexist sentiments, though. Regardless, whether we agree or disagree with the DCI has no bearing on the decision they made - and I'm willing to bet they couldn't care less either way.
If and when an individual becomes identifiable with a product, just as with their actual sponsors, that individual can impact the marketability of that product. It's pretty understandable that WOTC and the DCI would then want to publicly admonish these types of opinions, and when this individual has clearly attached his persona to these views, it's really not surprising to see this type of ban. Whether you or I agree or disagree is completely immaterial. Thus is the power and, often times, hypocrisy of all of these types of governing bodies.
December 8, 2017 8:23 p.m.
Wooo (ha) buddy this will be a long one. I actually know a bit about this because I followed it as it happened and my roommate and I have talked about this a lot because he has watched a lot of Woo's indie content.
Just want to say that my grammar and punctuation kind of suck in this because I am kind of tired but it should't be too bad....
Alright let's start in chronological order.
The WW2 Hitler Stuff - The Facts
Okay so before all this stuff happened Woo was an avid streamer and youtuber that highly stressed open minded thinking in his videos. He really focused on improving yourself as a person both in mind and body and then you could channel that new found energy to things like magic or work or whatever. During one of his streams he talked about how he was reading (I think in the original language, don't quote me on that) Mein Kampf.
During this stream, which he used as an open forum to just express free speech, he stated the facts about the book and what was in it. He did not in any way or at any time say that he agreed with anything in the book he mentioned what the Nazis thought about the Jews, and why Hitler and others blamed them for the problems in the world. The reason he talked about the Jews controlling the media and military that is not from today's society. He said that to portray why the Germans hated the Jews because during a depression they bought up a lot of land and political and economical power and stuff, its in this video at about 5 mins.
So what ended up happening after that was he got fired from channelfireball.com as he was a writer for them and they did not want to be associated with his stream.
My thoughts about the Mein Kampf topic
In the context of his stream and youtube channel and because of what his normal content is and the ideals of these two channels, he had every right to talk about this. He prefaced the whole thing with, "I am going to be as objective as possible." He specifically mentions that these are not his opinions and that he is just trying to have a healthy conversation about it. HOWEVER, because he was associated with channelfireball.com and was a pro player at the time, it was a very stupid idea to do so (which he also kind of mentions in the beginning of that video) and channelfireball had EVERY right to kick him off as they are a business. But hey that's just my opinion
So what did Woo do afterwards
He just says hey I made a mistake and focused on his life and moved on. Something magic players might actually have the inability to do in my opinion. He went on to do amazingly in tournaments for the past year and a half and became draft master and did well at pro tours and really made a name for himself again not just as a "scumbag nazi".
Facts about Magic for Bad and that situation
So a while back, Woo made a facebook group called Magic for Good. This group was meant to be sort of a safe space for newer or inexperienced players (or anyone really) to talk about magic and discuss things and be able to ask ANYTHING to just further their knowledge about the game without getting ridiculed for not knowing everything.
People started "shit-posting" and making fun of people and so Woo made Magic for Bad. This facebook group was a place for those people to shit talk all they want without directly hurting anyone's feelings. Keep in mind this supported Woo's ideology of free speech instead of just banning the guys from the group. So just keep in mind he made BOTH groups he did not just make Magic for Bad.
So what happened recently?
So, two (ha) things happened recently that are both very important both for this discussion and because I believe they influenced each other and Wizard's decision in this.
Not long ago MTGHeadQuarters, a channel that used to be pack openings that turned to commenting on magic drama, commented and harassed popular cosplay artist Christine Sprankle. She tweeted saying that she was done with magic and cosplaying for magic because she gets a lot of harassment and nasty remarks and specifically named MTGHeadQuarters/UnsleevedMedia (same person) as a major reason she is quitting. I do believe that this happened before the magic for bad group drama so reddit did what they do best and went on a witch hunt and there was a lot of drama etc.
Queue Magic for Bad Drama
So soon afterwards, or at least I heard of it afterwards, the Magic for Bad group posted a list of 9 or so female magic personalities and created a "bangability" list or chart or whatever some sort of rating system based on that. Well since this is the second thing that happened it really turn the community on its head and naturally started an outrage.
The consequences for both of these things were MTGHeadQuarters/UnsleevedMedia/Jeremy Something was actually banned FOR LIFE. Travis Woo was banned for 1 year and some of the members of Magic for Bad were also banned for 1 year.
My Opinion on the Magic for Bad Drama
I would like to start off by saying I was a member of both Magic for Good and Magic for Bad for a short while. The majority of Magic for Bad's memes were just making fun of people from Magic for Good. For example, there were numerous posts about how someone from Magic for Good would ask "With planeswalkers being legendary, can I play them as commanders?" Magic for Bad would post screenshots of these questions and basically just kek and lel and make fun of them for being dumb. They would not use blatant insults usually but would say things to the effect of "Can my Darksteel Forge be my commander kekkekekekekekek." The group was more or less a bunch of elitists that just wanted to shit post because they had nothing better to do. In my opinion nothing they ever did was harmful, just poor trolling. Granted I left the group some months ago so I don't know how it evolved after that.
As far as WOTC's response to these events I think they have every right to do this but I am not totally sure that I agree with all of their sentences. Starting off, I hate MTGHeadQuarters, I originally used to love his unboxing videos and stuff but as soon as he started getting into the drama business he was super freaking toxic and unproductive for both himself and the community. I think what WOTC did was fine but I also think what they did was just make him a precedent and a warning for others, similar to the GP buttcrack guy who got banned for either an extended time or life, I can't remember. I think the buttcrack guy got a ban for ruining the image that WOTC wanted at the time and I think MTGHQ got the same unfortunate position. I don't think a ban for life was necessary because it seems inconsistent with the way they treat other bannings but it is what it is.
For the other bannings I think that the group members that made the post should be banned for a year but I think Woo should get a lesser sentence. To my knowledge, Woo was not very active in the shit posting and even though he made the group it was never to just be malicious/sexist/racist or whatever. Yes he was the creator and moderator but at the same time this is a closed group that you have to search out and choose to join and whether it was through this group or not this would've happened eventually and has definitely happened among friends IRL. I truly believe that WOTC banned Woo mostly because he was becoming a very popular pro player and they didn't want the community to think pros got special treatment when it comes to these topics.
Hopefully this sheds some light on the subject. Feel free to have your own opinions and I would be happy to continue talking about it but anyone who just shits on the people involved without any reason I will immediately ignore. I read enough of that on reddit.
December 9, 2017 2:36 a.m.
DarkMagician says... #16
So going off of EmblemMans in depth post the man seems to have done nothing wrong other than advocate for free speech and everyone's right to their own opinion. Even if he was posting racist/sexist posts banning someone for their views in their private life just strikes me as wrong. The man wasn't an employee of Wizards and as far as I know the DCI doesn't have a list of things that players can and can not do in their private life if they wish to play.
Homura_Akemi if he did something at an event I would totally agree with you but he didn't, there's no reason for someone to be punished for what they do in their private life.
December 9, 2017 3:51 a.m.
DarkMagician says... #17
RzepkanutWotC actually isn't privately owned, it's been owned by Hasbro for quite some time now.
December 9, 2017 3:52 a.m.
I'm a bit torn on this one. WotC should have the right to protect the games image but at what cost?
Should they be patrolling social media sites to see if MtG players are posting statements and opinions that do not fit in with their ideal?
I also believe that the punishment should be proportionate to the crime. In Jeremy's situation I don't think this was the case. Now I'm not a fan of Jeremy, but a life time ban, without the possibility of an appeal, is utterly ridiculous based on the evidence provided.
As for Travis, again, I am not really a fan, but I don't believe he actually posted the offending posts on Facebook, but as the creator and moderator of the Facebook page he does have to take some responsibility which he has admitted to.
With Travis, I think you also have to take into consideration that this is his livelihood. I think he did deserve a ban and maybe a warning on future behaviour, but maybe they could have given him a 3 month ban rather than a 12 month ban.
I've not mentioned the Main Kampf situation as I don't believe he has been banned for this. That happened 2 years ago and he lost his job at ChanelFireball. Again he held his hands up, admitted he was wrong and moved on.
December 9, 2017 6:19 a.m.
ork_mcgork says... #20
I would highly recommend checking out the Magic Mics podcast on this issue. I think they did a very fair analysis of what happened with Travis Woo, and their general consensus was that his heart is in the right place, but his execution is... well "face-plant" would be how I would put it.
I think that him getting a year banning is a tad harsh, but WoTC needs to send a message to the edgelords that they won't put up with it. Jeremy's lifetime ban (is news to me, btw, thank you EmblemMan)may not be "fair" but its necessary - when someone reaches that level of troll they won't stop. Frankly, I'm sure that won't deter him anyway. He'll just keep rallying his band of troglodytes.
WoTC and Hasbro have every right to snuff out things they don't like from their community - if they think it's hurting their business. Frankly, if I had gotten into Magic and the first thing I'd seen was an Unsleeved Media troll video or stumbled into Magic for Bad, I wouldn't have played the game.
Lastly, since we're tossing around the "free speech" ball - the US Constitution protects the citizens from government censorship only. Private businesses can do as they please so long as it doesn't get the government involved (adn that's also why you can take people to court for slander and libel). To that end, if people like Jeremy keep it up, it should be within WoTC's rights as a business (or Hasbro on their behalf) to issue cease and desists and whatnot to protect their public image (though keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer, and if we've got some here on the site who see this, by all means correct me!).
Ultimately, we should all strive to ensure the MTG community is friendly, welcoming, and inclusive as possible. That doesn't mean we need to submit to everyone's hurt feelings, but its too easy on the internet to go from mean words to full-blown trolling/shitposting.
Having said all that, I wish everyone a wonderful Saturday filled with MTG goodness!
December 9, 2017 12:06 p.m.
The thing with Jeremy is no ones had any proof of anything he's done other then a few tweets among freinds. No body ever said to him can you stop tweeting me your bothering me don't mention me in your videos ect
December 9, 2017 12:26 p.m.
Thanks everyone for ypur input. Now that ove done a little more homewprk on the matter ive come to a few conclusions. First being basically what ork_mcgork was saying, He means well, I think. But bottom line he created and monitored that group on fb, and if it actually was full of racist sexist posts, then thats not okay. When your a pro player making money off the game, getting sponsorship, you cant have that, its bad for business.
I found the video of him ranting about germany and such. He really was trying not to go into the red zone, but there were a few moments that he definitely did. Its just a really touchy subject that he should have just researched on his own, instead of posting a questionable video discussing. He should have known what would happen.
December 9, 2017 12:29 p.m.
ork_mcgork says... #24
Certainly! Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ykZfwTrS3s
If someone else could turn this into a proper link for the thread I would be most appreciative (swinging by between bouts of studying for finals lol).
8vomit says... #2
Hrrmm.. heres some links incase u want them
https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2015/11/what-we-learned-the-travis-woo-interview/
http://epicstream.com/news/Magic-The-Gathering-Pro-Travis-Woo-Suspended-by-The-DCI-For-1-Year
December 8, 2017 10:05 a.m.