Are the Boros the Police or Military of Ravnica?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 23, 2024, 8:34 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I started playing MtG in 2003, so I remember the original Ravnica block, and I had always presumed that the Azorius were the police of Ravnica and that the Boros were the military, but, in the story for Murders at Karlov Manor, Aurelia mentioned that the Boros were leading the investigation in cooperation with the Azorius, so I now am not certain of their exact role.
Therefore, I must ask: are the Boros the police or the military of Ravnica, and, if they are the police, what role do the Azorius serve, and which guild is the military of Ravnica?
wallisface says... #3
My own knowledge of the law is near-zero, so i’ve done a quick google and found this external link.
According to that:
-
Azorius are labelled as ” Ravnica's government and legal sector.”
-
Boros are labelled as ”Ravnica's security force, constabulary, and standing army.”
Assuming this holds-true, I would imagine there’s a decent amount of overlap between Azorius’s ” legal sector” and boros’s ”security force”.
Edit: I see legendofa both beat me to it, and used better words :)
January 23, 2024 9:09 p.m.
In the Ravnica justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the Boros, who investigate crime; and the Azorius, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
dun dun
Or, as others have said, the two entities fill different, complimentary roles in law enforcement, much as the real world tends to operate.
January 24, 2024 1:20 p.m. Edited.
Last_Laugh says... #6
Caerwyn I'd be more interested in watching Law & Order: Ravnica than any of the 'real world' justice system tv shows that glorify our own broken justice system.
*edit dun dun
January 24, 2024 4:32 p.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy says... #7
- "Are the Boros the Police or Military of Ravnica?"
Yes.
(More like a 'State Police')
January 24, 2024 5:41 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #8
Hey speaking on this topic...
With 10 guilds of equal responsibility and 10 rulers with one for each guild and the Guildpact to keep them all in line...
How would we describe Ravnica's political authority and systems, using our own real world structures?
January 24, 2024 5:43 p.m.
I don"t know if there's any historical society that was governed by guilds (in the medieval sense, not the Ravnica sense, although there's a fair amount of overlap). I think the best modern comparison is a constitutional parliament, with the Living Guildpact acting as the formal head of state. The guild leaders act as the governmental leads, more or less prime minister by committee.
I'm not a political scientist, though, so someone more knowledgeable might have a better answer. And having the constitution/Guildpact be magically binding adds an interesting wrinkle.
January 24, 2024 6:30 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #10
I wonder if it could almost be akin to Departments.
Golgari is the Department of Sanitation
Orzhova is the Department of Revenue
Dimir is the FBI / CIA
Izzet is the Department of Education
Even Selesnya could be the Department of Agriculture
January 24, 2024 8:16 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #11
I do not have the time to respond to each individual post, but I thank everyone for their responses, although I definitely think that the idea of the police and the military being the same entity is not a comforting thought.
Also, I presume that the Azorius are the politicians of Ravnica?
January 24, 2024 9:01 p.m.
Depends on what you mean by politicians. The Azorius create and enforce laws. The guild leaders and the Living Guildpact are most responsible for the organization, functions, and flow of day-to-day life. At least as I understanding, funding for the guilds is split mostly between guild contributions and a budget from the Living Guildpact, and the head of the Orzhov Syndicate acts as treasurer for the city.
January 24, 2024 9:23 p.m.
The Azorius handle the legislature, the guild leaders provide governance, and the Living Guildpact is the final arbiter and authority, but seems to have little relevance to most daily activities.
Since "politician" is a broad term, and covers legal stuff, finances, day-to-day oversight, and long-term oversight, Ravnica has a very decentralized power structure. I'm not sure there's a good historical equivalent, but again, I'm not a historian or political scientist.
Apologies for the double post.
January 24, 2024 9:33 p.m.
(Oh, hey - one of those rare times a history and political science degree is actually useful!)
Giving this a fair bit of thought, Ravnica is a bureaucracy in the most pure sense of that word. When we think “bureaucracy”, we think of the term in a derogatory manner - the red tape and other elements of government. However, the word could describe a system of government itself, rather than simply an aspect of other governmental structures.
The word comes from the “bureau” (from French, a type of office) with κράτος (the Greek kratos, meaning rule or power; with the spelling having evolved through Latin and French to get the “cracy” element we know today). Or literally “power in the hands of offices.”
That is what Ravnica’s system is, after all, Power in the Hands of Offices - with the guilds being the offices. Even the arbiter of disputes, the Guildpact, only holds authority because the Guilds conveyed power.
For real-world equivalents, there is not a great equivalent - there are systems like the United States, where the Executive Branch contains different bureaus - but those derive their power not from themselves, but from the Presidency (and confirmation by the Senate), and thus indirectly from the People (hence Democracy—power comes from the Demos; the people).
You’ll be hard pressed to find an institution where the power structure truly comes from offices in this manner in the real world, because you cannot really had waive a bunch of fully functioning bureaus into existence. I think your closest equivalents are going to be places in history where government has broken down and existing entities rose to fill the gaps.
There also are times in Italian history where guilds have held a lot of power and influence.
But, in all these cases, the “guild” tends to exert control as a singular unit, or in competition with others. A example of a true system like Ravnica, where guilds got together and formed a single, functioning government, eludes me.
January 24, 2024 10:22 p.m.
Another, less political difference between the two, is that the Boros will actually treat you like a human being. Usually.
legendofa says... #2
Law enforcement is split between the Boros and the Azorius. The Boros Legion acts as both military and police force (although I've wondered why they need a military, if the entirety of the plane is one big city-state. Who would they be fighting against?) The Azorius Senate shares responsibility in law enforcement and is also responsible for creating laws and overseeing trials.
Roughly speaking, the Boros Legion enforces peace and order. They don't arrest people, their job is to break up riots, act as first responders, and so on. The Azorius Senate (specifically, the Lyev Column has the beat and parole officers, the ones who actually do the booking and holding.
January 23, 2024 9:04 p.m.