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Yeah, Kiki is a very viable option when you're facing a lot of hate for Animar himself. I still like the combo a lot, and consider it totally playable given the right meta conditions.
Trinket is a very good inclusion, and it's been something i'd like to work back into the deck for a while. I like your idea to use Trinket and Neo together a lot too. I'll have to find a slot for the guy.
June 14, 2019 3:56 p.m.
My experience, having played all the lines at different times, has been qualitatively similar to yours. Neo is just the best 1-card win we've had access to in a log time. Kiki was the last one that worked as cleanly with the decks other lines, but it had some very real issues.
I will say though, you may be able to get more use out of Harvest. Especially with Seeker and Mystical tutor giving us two paths to Harvest itself, I've found it surprisingly easy to use. I'd say my wins have been roughly evenly divided between Neoform, Harvest and just raw statue+Ballista via either topdeck or individually tutoring them. Harvest does need some extra green mana (its usually a 4 mana play to win, 6 if you want to fetch and cast Gaea's Herald, 7 if you want Serp) BUT thats very possible by mid games, especially if you have Cradle/Crop Rotation. Perhaps the 3=5 slots you get back by shaving Kiri and the Kiki pieces will go towards making this combo smoother?
June 14, 2019 2:04 p.m.
Neo itself is more vulnerable to "noncreature" counters, but the line is not really any fewer casts otherwise. We play enough counterspells to make that work IMO, and since these bigger lines are really best later in the game once we've set up, i think its pretty easy to protect. If you're often playing against mono-U tho, you may need to work hard to protect your plays!
June 13, 2019 10:46 p.m.
Domri: The uncounterable ability is nice, but that effect is way better when you can tutor it, hence Serp and Gaea's Herald.
Ouphe: You usually want to bounce him on the last statue cast. This does leave your Statue on the battlefield, but it's a relatively niche case and the benefit of being able to shut down a ton of wincons/fast mana is way greater. Some people like Manglehorn for the deck, and I see Ouphe as a pretty sizeable upgrade. Worst case scenerio, we can kill him with Cratermaker.
June 13, 2019 8:51 p.m.
The "Neoform Line" im referring to is:
- Animar on 2
- Recruiter fetching Metamorph
- Meta copying Recruiter, fetching Spellseeker (this step is optional, but saves you mana)
- Seeker fetching Neo
- Neo the seeker into Statue, bouncing itself
- Statue a million times bouncing itself
- Statue bouncing Meta (you can bounce recruiter here if you skipped meta earlier)
- Meta copying recruiter for Ballista (here's where having meta saves you the 1 mana)
- Ballista to win
This basically replaces Kiri as a 1-card win in my current list (update coming soon, i promise) and it has a few major benefits:
- mana can come from anywhweere, not just painless U dual lands. this is a HUGE upside, bc being land-gated in such a dork-heavy deck feels bad.
- no need to run mediocre duals like filters/checks/speeds anymore, and we can freely add the new Horizon lands without worrying about them being "dead" when we want to combo.
- No need to run Peregrine Drake nor Kiri herself. Both have niche applications in the deck outside combo (drake moreso, obv, since Kiri is just a bad Man-o-War) but were pretty "dead" slots when deckbuilding, and undesirable draws when playing. I'd rather run more protection or speed here.
The downside to cutting kiri is that all our wins now focus on Statue and, to some extent, on Ballista. This may be a dealbreaker to some players, but I've never really had an issue with it. the amount of exiling-removal in my meta is vanishingly small, and the same is increasingly true of cEDH in general. I wouldn't recommend going all-in on Statue if your meta is full of Swords effects, but I really havent noticed a downside.
So basically I'm anticipating being able to cut 1-2 mediocre slots and add in a few solid utility pieces. Right now i'm liking Stormtamer and Rishkar, but The Ouphe is a fantastic card for this deck too. I may find a way to slot him in since a new Scepter deck just popped up in my meta. With the new land-freedon, I may even want to add GSZ+Arbor back in to get Ouphe other hate-pieces online faster. Longer term, with the London mulligan in effect, I'll prob shave a land or two (would be much harder with Kiri in the deck!) and add a few more hate pieces, since combos will only be getting better!
I promise I'll have a formal update to the list and the combos published soon; i've been swamped with end-of-year teaching/degree responsibilities and haven't had as much time to test as usual. the deck has been running really smooth for the last few weeks tho, so I'll have it written up shortly!
June 13, 2019 2:43 p.m.
Yeah, same! and when the new London Mulliagn goes live and I shave a few lands (and add the Hprizon ones) I think it'll be a perfect replacement for Kiri. It may cost a single mana more, but it better uses the decks resources in the form of creature mana and pain/limited-use lands like Gemstone.
June 11, 2019 1:14 p.m.
I think he's def a good meta inclusion for 80% of the meta. These days I play against Edric a lot so it's not as relevant, but I'd want Ouphe maindeck for the blind meta and I'd only cut him if things got really inbred (ie, almost all Edric, Mono-G, UG combo etc.) I'd even consider adding GSZ and Dryad Arbor back in to give us another way to power out our most relevant hate.
Basically, even when he's not hating anything specific out of the game he's still a 2CMC green guy. That's not a bad worst-case for a creature with a powerful but situational passive ability. I still like ScOoze when the meta calls for it, and that's way worse at what it does than Ouphe is at it's job. So yeah, There's no doubt that this is a really strong toolbox piece for the deck.
June 3, 2019 10:35 a.m.
Commander / EDH
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|Playing since||Magic 2014|
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|Favorite formats||Commander / EDH|
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