What operating system to use?
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Feb. 17, 2015, 2:41 p.m. by Epochalyptik
Tech junkies:
I'm looking to upgrade my shameful Windows OS to something that actually works. The choice is between 7 and 8.1 (Pro or not).
This is for my desktop, which I intend to use for gaming (mostly Warframe and League of Legends), 3D modeling, and maybe a few other processes. I don't need bells and whistles. I'm looking for compatibility and smooth functionality.
What do?
Unforgivn_II says... #3
I like 7, since I get to keep my Start button. God knows why they got rid of it in 8. I also hear there's supposed to be a Windows 10 in the making (because 9 doesn't deserve to get an OS named after it)
February 17, 2015 3:01 p.m.
XP. I'm not even joking. Legendarily stable and you can still run mostly everything. If you really want to choose out of those two - 7. 8s OS is pretty RAM instensive. 7 too, but not as much so.
February 17, 2015 3:02 p.m.
hammerhead300 says... #5
If I had to choose between operating systems, I'd choose 7. Windows 8.1 isn't too bad, but I'm a lot more familiar with 7, and I think for a PC it's a better OS. If you like the interface for 8.1, it won't be long before they release 10 and you'll be able to upgrade for free regardless of whether you have 7 or 8.1.
February 17, 2015 3:02 p.m.
ZooGambler says... #6
I'd strongly recommend Windows 7. It's the tried and tested go to OS. Windows 8 still has a lot of incompatibilities and bugs to work out before I'd recommend it. Windows 7's OS is also much more intuitive to use compared to Windows 8.
February 17, 2015 3:02 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #7
First off, do you like tablet interfaces? Then Windows 8.1. Its good, once you get use to it, but it was designed for the modern era of touchscreens, and it definitely keeps that feel even if you don't have it.
Windows 7 is in my opinion better, not for tech reasons, but because it feels like Windows. If you want to open control panel, you click on the start menu, and click on the control panel. But I'd hurry up and pick up a copy soon, before they're gone off the market.
I personally use both, 7 on my desktop, and 8 on my laptop. However, both are gaming setups, so alot of the "smoothness" will be in your hardware, and not really with the Windows system, at this stage.
I'd go with 8, mostly because its new and fresh, which means that Windows will officially support it longer (or at least, that's the hope), however the start menu has pretty much been replaced with a "smartphone application menu."
As for compatibility, with Windows, you aren't going to run into much issues, the real problems with compatibility is with Linux and other operating systems.
February 17, 2015 3:05 p.m.
http://www.avadirect.com/Gaming-Desktops
These guys build the best custom computers in the industry for the price and their customer service is the bee's knees. You're not paying for branding out the ass like Apple makes you do so you get a better product for a cheaper price. I got a $1200 laptop from them two years ago for video production and it's way better than the $3000 Alienware laptop I had before it.
Windows 7 is Microsoft's magnum opus and Windows 8 is just an infant that still needs potty training so stay away from it. Support lasts until 2020 for Windows 7 so you should be fine.
February 17, 2015 3:05 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #9
I'm a personal fan of OS X 10.10, but I also use a camera on the daily, so...
Out of those options, however, Windows 7 just outclasses 8 in every way. Meaning that I don't have a windows powered tablet, and therefore I don't have a reason to like 8.
February 17, 2015 3:16 p.m.
notamardybum says... #10
if you go windows 8, go pro. the basic windows 8 does not come with dvd playback capabilities and you end up having to buying an application from some 3rd party asshat. Windows 8.1 pro comes with dvd playback, but you still have to buy the Windows Entertainment pack or some bs like that to play dvds. The odd part is the computer can read cd's and dvd's with data on them, but just won't playback dvd movies and such.
other than that windows 8 is great...
February 17, 2015 3:46 p.m.
notamardybum says... #11
i ended up leaving mac due to their terrible computer designs. wanted to charge me $800+ for a bad video card after the turd-genius at the apple store told me it would cost $300. sold my macbookpro for parts, and bought a new pc.
February 17, 2015 3:50 p.m.
8.1 is amazing, smooth, starts instantly and just works flawlessly. I have had it since it first came out and will definitely be upgrading to 10. I have a high end gaming rig and also do 3D Design Engineering on it. Always go pro on Windows operating systems. 7 is still great, but slower. XP is no longer protected by security updates so thats suicide. Plus Windows 7 and 8 both get a full virus protection package which is sup[er light weight unlike most of the other garbage out there that completely nukes your pc like crappy itunes.
Apple is overpriced, like ridiculously, and its only really good for music and picture/video editing. Depends on what modelling you are doing? If it's visual modelling it might be better. I would never go with Apple personally but it might be better for you. IMO go with 8.1 it's epic. Plus, the people saying you need to have it on a tab are just wrong, it works and looks great on my dual screen set up and the touch tab alike. People afraid of change might not like it, but if you embrace it, it's totally worth it! O and if you upgrade for FREE to 10 in the first year from 7 or 8 you apparently get free upgrades to future gen Operating Systems for life!
February 17, 2015 4:02 p.m.
Been running xp for over 6 years. Absolutely fine. Windows security updates do more harm than good, honestly.
7 is faster than 8. Like that's just unequivocally true. It's much more lightweight and taxes hardware less.
February 17, 2015 4:06 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #14
Actually, chief.... 8 is more lightweight.....
http://www.askvg.com/comparison-between-windows-7-and-windows-8-memory-management-system/
Considering my Desktop and Laptop are pretty much the same computer (really the only difference is the video card, one is Nvidia, and the other is AMD), my laptop (Windows 8) runs much much faster than my desktop (windows 7)
February 17, 2015 4:12 p.m.
hammerhead300 says... #15
Personally, I wouldn't go back to XP if you paid me. The company I work for is in the process of phasing out the last few remaining PCs running XP in favor of Win 7 boxes, and the sooner it happens, the better as far as I'm concerned. I've never had any stability issues with 7. Windows XP was a great OS in its time, but everything that I can do on an XP machine I can do faster on a Windows 7 machine.
For what it's worth, I am doing some beta testing on Windows 10 and like what I see so far. It doesn't bring back the same Start menu that 7 has, but it does have somewhat of a hybrid between the Start menu and Metro. It does still have somewhat of a tablet-ish feel to it to me (and I don't really know what to think of Microsoft's emerging philosophy of programming an OS the same way for any device that it's on) but it feels like an OS that was designed for a PC with some elements that are good for a tablet, whereas Windows 8 feels like the opposite to me.
February 17, 2015 4:17 p.m.
Hmm.... When I went from 7 to 8. I had massive performance issues. Lance my dislike. I uninstalled and went back. Do you think it might be a new fix?
February 17, 2015 4:23 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #17
It very well could've been a bad install, or they did a performance fix of some sort.
It could also be failing hardware, outdated/incorrect drivers, or a multitude of other little things.
I honestly didn't get my laptop until 8.1, so I really don't know how bad it was before, but now it's so great that they warrant distinguishing between 8 and 8.1, and pretty much all Windows 8 prepackaged machines are 8.1.
But, I'm going to go with it was a hardware compatibility issue with some piece of equipment.
February 17, 2015 4:37 p.m.
*hence my dislike.
I have an OSX machine, an XP machine and a windows 7 machine. the 7 machine was 8 but I found it slower and clunkier. I couldn't acess file trees as easily. It tried to cram all my pictures into some weird photos bit and thought it was being helpful by displaying them as like the album cover or some shit when I have nudes from my girlfriend. That was great. Cycling through programs on that stupid tile view was just irritating. Eugh. I can fully accept though that if it's faster than 7 in its current incarnation then go for it.
February 17, 2015 4:39 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #19
Oh don't get me wrong, I prefer 7 over 8 as well. 8 was too.... mobile friendly.
February 17, 2015 4:45 p.m.
Also upgrading from 7 to 8 isnt as 'clean' as a fresh install. That could have been one of the problems.
Because you couldnt work out how to turn off live tile doesnt make it bad lol. Persist and its actually the fastest user interface possible. Everything is literally right there, you just type and it comes up. Its that easy. And its definitely the fastest os in both use and boot and shutdown time. Takin a little time to learn a few nuances is not the end of the world alot of people try to make out. Maybe its because im an advanced pc user i dunno, but theres nothing hard and nothing it cant do better, cleaner, or more efficiently than any of its predecessors.
February 17, 2015 5:11 p.m.
Or you can hide certain files from the pictures tiles if you want live tile to function. Or turn the picture window off altogether, the possibilities are many tbh
February 17, 2015 5:13 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #22
I agree, it does have a lot of customizability.... however, it does not like changing the desktop slide show time over one day.
It's like there is something that checks "incorrect" values for user settings in the registry....
February 17, 2015 5:17 p.m.
weisemanjohn says... #23
If you are familiar with windows 8 or have a touch screen, go with windows 8. If not, go with windows 7. I learned windows 8 on a desktop and it definitely has an unfriendly learning curve if you are coming from an older operating system.
February 17, 2015 5:24 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #24
"Unfriendly"
It's much much easier to learn and get used to than it was too go from xp to say... Ubuntu 7.
February 17, 2015 5:28 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #25
As in, it took me like a day or two to get used to eight.
February 17, 2015 5:30 p.m.
I personally am a Avid supporter of Windows 7. Windows 8.1 Pro is nice but I find its layout counter-intuitive
February 17, 2015 5:45 p.m.
You can torrent Windows 7 Ultimate for free if you want to save money. Ching Liu's is the best.
February 17, 2015 5:46 p.m.
Gorgosaurusrex says... #28
I recommend Windows 8.1 Pro. With an SSD my PC boots in about 6-7 seconds. Windows 8 also runs lighter than Windows 7. The layout is great - if you can get used to it. It's a very smooth OS overall with few bugs.
February 17, 2015 6:18 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #29
Seems like some conflicting advice (which I'm fine with).
All I really need is a lightweight OS that doesn't make my system wheeze. I'm currently on an ancient Vista license because I built my rig back in high school and more or less left it alone through half of university. It crawls on start and really dislikes when I try to change between programs or open something new.
February 17, 2015 9:41 p.m.
hammerhead300 says... #30
I'd say it all comes down to what costs less, really. I wouldn't recommend getting a torrented copy since A) it's illegal, and B) if you install the wrong updates, Microsoft's WAT will recognize that the copy isn't genuine and will lock it down after 30 days. I bought an OEM copy of Windows 7 and 8 came pre-loaded on my laptop, so I couldn't tell you how the prices compare, but I think you'd probably be happy with either at least until Windows 10 comes out.
February 17, 2015 10:20 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #31
Well, considering ny handy little article I shared... go with eight.
However, as has been stated, you might need to do a fresh install (meaning a format) in order to have a good experience.
February 17, 2015 10:36 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #32
I was planning on formatting it just to get all the garbage off my system and start over. I don't have any important files on this computer anyway.
February 17, 2015 10:37 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #33
Windows 8.1 definitely has a few kinks here and there...nothing to big, but just some stuff that you'll have to attend to or it gets annoying. As far as the start menu goes and people saying it's so much more difficult, it's not. You can easily learn the layout within a day or less. It's not more difficult at all if you know what you're looking for, as you probably do, since it's very easy to just use the search. I actually prefer the some of the layout to the previous one. Another thing to add, 8.1 is very fast, especially if you have the option to put it on a solid state drive. I don't think there's a faster OS. Windows 7 is the most reliable and resembles something familiar. My advice, go 8.1 if you can't wait, learn it, and put up with the occasional kink every now and then....or wait for the new OS. Don't torrent it or anything for reasons pointed out by hammerhead300
February 17, 2015 10:48 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #34
Well, before you get started, I'd also look at the system requirements for both. We tend to orget that operating systems have system requirements, and also check and see if you have any hardware that might be problematic (its not often that things dont work well with Windows, but it does happen from time to time.)
February 17, 2015 10:58 p.m.
I really hope you're trolling with those XP comments, ChiefBell. I mean, it really was great OS back in the day but now after Microsoft stopped supporting it, it's way too unreliable to use. It is still so vastly used that hackers and virus programmers takes full advantage of the situation. Also, the fact that you say that updates makes more harm than good is ridiculous and makes no sense what so ever.
At the moment I use Win 7 on my PC, Win 8.1 on my tablet (it's the real deal, not a mobile version) and Cyanogen Mod Android on phone. I had Win 8 on my PC too but I changed it back to 7. Imho tiles are made for tablets, not for mouse and keyboard. Win8 has some great features but the amount of frustration you get from using normal day to day things in it worse option. Speedwise 7 and 8.1 are pretty much the same.
At the moment I would go with 7 but if you are buying the OS, then I'd recommend 8.1 because you will get free upgrade to win10 when it comes.
February 18, 2015 2:30 a.m.
There's a fair number of professionals that are of the opinion that windows recommended updates are at best of limited use and at worst sloppily written in such a way that your system slows down due to shoddy code. If you're careful in managing your own ports and diligent in watching your online traffic (which I guess most people don't do) then they're of very limited efficacy. There's also the super controversial opinion that recommended updates on older machines nearing the end of their life are purposefully designed to slow the system down in order to urge the user to upgrade. Finally recommended updates are known to occasionally cause bugs in other programs, which leads to further problems, and not solutions. Whatever the truth is there are certainly individuals who think long and hard before they install those auto updates. Many computer scientists I know, for example, avoid them like the plague and just take time to read the update notes and manually fix the problem themselves in order to avoid these problems.
Like.... I'd believe you about xp if I'd had crashes on it, problems with malware, other issues etc. But I havent.... Like at all. I'm sure theoretically it's a poor OS, but in practice I've had no trouble. My xp machine has had the fewest software crashes and problems related to viruses, malware etc tout of any of my machines. So either I'm lucky or it is great.
February 18, 2015 4:29 a.m.
to be fair XP is fine, and is widely liked. Compared to 7 and 8 it's dog slow, terrible to look at and crap to customize. I never had an issue with XP, Vista, 7 or 8 so i would just say pick the one thats right for you, which really is just between 7 and 8 these days, most people want hassle free computing, so monitoring your own pc diligently for viruses etc, is something people just don't want to do.
Why can't people seem to handle tiles on pc's? Its a bigger icon to click? Hows that hard? even on the smallest setting the tiles are only equal to normal software icons on your desktop, i just don't get why people are so against it. Metro is fast, efficient and clean, how is it worse than the old school desktop? I am actually asking, people keep saying, don't like tiles, it's too mobile friendly (wtf does that even mean) I have it on my phone, pc and tablet. Its amazing all round imo, why are people so against it? is it because its do radically different and as a rule people are afraid or unwilling to change? Having preferences is fine, I am just interested in actual reasons not just 'because its different' we don't want OS racism here ;-)
February 18, 2015 5:03 a.m.
I hated tiles because it made me have to scroll across to find the program I wanted. With older systems you just have a list of all programs which saves time.
February 18, 2015 5:08 a.m.
ChiefBell, yeah. I can understand that. The main factor here is the user itself. The best antivirus "software" you can have is common sense. If you are good with computers and know what you are doing, you most likely won't have many problems with XP either. That said, I have to work a lot as IT tech for "normal people", as they might say, and in those cases XP is totally out of question. Same goes for work enviroments just because the risk factor (chance is low but the damage is high) is too big.
Also, you can get rid off the tiles if you want but that means you have to do some cunstomizations (thus not being that ideal). But if that is the only reason not to like 8, I'd say there is not real reason for someone who understand more about how computers work. But yeah, those are of course just opinions :)
February 18, 2015 6:59 a.m.
weisemanjohn says... #40
I looked at the learning curve from a perspective of people like my parents, last time I did this discussion, thats who I did it with. I argued thatthey would need a touch screen to be able to more easily adopt the new computer rather than buying one and continuing to use the old one like what has happened before.
If you can easily adapt to the new interface of windows 8, do it. I'm running a desktop and a laptop both with it. I just know that the touchscreen feels more intuitive while using windows 8.
My largest gripes were the fact that many built in programs act like apps rather than windowed programs like before, the fact that the charms bar can be a pain to access, and accessing common features such as control panel are more of a hassle. As far as the tile interface is concerned, it does feel like you are using a mobile device rather than a desktop computer, and I opt to avoid using it whenever possible.
February 18, 2015 7:09 a.m.
if you make the tiles smaller you don't need to scroll across. how many pieces of software do you realistically need on you desktop though lol? I have like 25-30 games, all the windows office, steam, origin, Solidworks, outlook, the desktop button, pictures on large for the awesome live tile, skype, theres a few more I can't remember too and most are medium some are large and the office ones are small. And theres still more room without scroll. This is 24" monitor.
I mean, fair enough if its the scrolling, but I think theres a lot of user error, or lack of user knowledge in the dislike of metro and windows 8
February 18, 2015 7:39 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #42
The real issue, epoch, that people have with eight, is the layout. The start menu has been replaced with something similar to the apps menu on a phone.
As for updates, if you're a casual user, you probably click "remind me later" even it comes up anyways, just like you casuals do with java and flash, so fits it really matter?
February 18, 2015 1:20 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #43
Also, as for the updates being shoddy code; the reason is that Microsoft is losing huge amounts of seasoned, good developers to more cutting edge and leading competitors, like Google.
This makes a void, where you have new guys coming in that don't understand the code for a feature, so rather than fix it, they just add a new one with the fixes they want (PowerShell, I'm looking at you.)
Not only that, but have you seen how often Windows updates? They push these things out almost daily, so they're rushed, and probably not documented all that well, so they require a patch to fix the patch...
Disclaimer: the last section is pure speculation.
February 18, 2015 1:24 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #44
Windows 8 is fine, but I'd prefer Windows 7 if given an option. Windows 8 does its job but it requires relearning some things and the Metro interface is not optimal for your use description. Buy/build a desktop for gaming; a laptop can do it but is less cost effective and more risky (vulnerable to damage, theft, etc).
If given the option I would prefer the Professional version of either, however the cost is significant sometimes compared to the Home version. The main reason I'd want the Pro version is it is easier to manage and configure remote access; if you don't use micromanage your machine tightly or remotely access it, this isn't a concern. I have a lot of work experience with Pro which makes me biased towards preferring it, also.
Get a machine with at least 4GB of RAM, or build one with that much. Get 8GB instead of you can budget it. Try to ensure it has room to expand (unused RAM slots preferably). That's an easy upgrade you can make later when you need a little more performance.
Try to get at least a Quad processor. The cache attributes matter more than the speed these days.
For the hard drive, watch for higher speed instead of more space. Don't buy the newest drives available, or the largest drives available, they are usually less reliable than last year's model and reliability is the other most important attribute with speed. It takes serious effort to fill most drives these days but higher speed will improve loading times more than the processor or graphics card will. For graphically intense games (Warframe) you might want a SSD as well; if you get a SSD, use it for the OS, pagefile, and any games that put a lot of pressure on the machine. Avoid using it for your regular files, retro games, etc.
If your budget is excellent, look into a RAID. It's a configuration that uses multiple hard drives to avoid data loss.
If you build the machine, get a modular power source with more power than you need. It makes upgrades easier.
Always set a password on all of your user accounts you use. Don't let the computer log in automatically. It elevates breaking into a computer from effortless to annoying, particularly for a remote attacker; that's usually enough to avoid such things entirely.
That's just rough stuff. You could get more specific.
February 19, 2015 9:29 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #45
He's already got the gaming desktop, just looking to upgrade the OS.
Epochalyptik says... #2
Will post system specs later if requested/needed.
February 17, 2015 2:42 p.m.