When does Test of Faith put +1/+1 counters on the creature?
Asked by Aritheall 14 years ago
Alrighty. Got this card in the duel decks (which I found to be a ton of fun, even without a PW) and am a little confused by the wording. Heres the scenario:
I have a creature out, say Steward of Valeron , which is enchanted with Griffin Guide .
My opponent attacks with a Kor Skyfisher , which I naturally block with the enchanted Steward of Valeron . My opponent then Mighty Leap s the Kor Skyfisher . Then, I cast Test of Faith .
Heres the question: When do I get the +1/+1 counters? Basically I'm asking if my enchanted Steward of Valeron will kill his 4/5 Kor Skyfisher as a result of getting the +1/+1 counters. My opponent insists his Kor Skyfisher will live, and since I don't know the card well, I agreed to post the question here. What say you?
(side note: this was a 3 way game and I went on to equip my now 7/7 flying vigilant creature with a loxadon-warhammer and won...yea knight deck).
But what about how Test of Faith says "Prevent the next three damage that WOULD be dealt..."
The usage of the word "Would" is confusing me. It almost makes it sound as if this happens before the damage is done...which doesn't really make sense to me, but thats how it sounds. Are there any "official" rules for this card that could spell out how this works, "play by play" so an Idiot like me can understand?
April 14, 2011 5:19 p.m.
12/1/2004: The +1/+1 counters are put onto the creature at the time the damage is prevented. If a 1/1 creature would be dealt 6 damage, 3 damage is prevented and three +1/+1 counters are put onto the creature. The creature is a 4/4 creature with 3 damage on it, so it won't be destroyed because State-Based Actions aren't checked until after Test of Faith is finished resolving.
So yes the skyfisher dies.
April 14, 2011 5:26 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #4
Damage prevention effects create a "shield" that waits to kick in until the next time damage would be dealt to something. That's actually the only way to make damage prevention work properly in the current version of the rules, because if you waited until after the damage was dealt, the state-based action that destroys a creature that's been dealt lethal damage would kill it before you get a chance to respond with prevention. (Many years ago, there used to be a special "damage prevention step" that would pop up whenever damage was dealt, but that weird bit of timing was taken out of the game with the 6th Edition rules revision.)
Here's the relevant section of the rules:
615.4. Prevention effects must exist before the appropriate damage event occursthey cant go backin time and change something thats already happened. Spells or abilities that generate theseeffects are often cast or activated in response to whatever would produce the event and thus resolvebefore that event would occur. Example: A player can activate an ability that prevents damage in response to a spell thatwould deal damage. Once the spell resolves, though, its too late to prevent the damage.
April 14, 2011 5:26 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
@yank, the Skyfisher does not die. The Steward didn't get the counters until the time the damage was prevented, which was after damage was assigned. The Steward only had 4 power when damage was assigned, which is not enough to kill the Skyfisher.
April 14, 2011 5:28 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #6
Rhadamanthus is correct here; the Skyfisher does not die.
In a given combat damage step, all damage is dealt at the same time. There is just one damage-dealing event where both creatures deal their damage to each other at the same time.
Because Test puts the counters on when it prevents damage, damage has to be dealt in order to get counters on the creature.
Because all damage is dealt at the same time, and damage has to be dealt in order to put counters on the creature, both creatures have already dealt damage by the time counters are put on the Steward.
April 14, 2011 6:40 p.m.
Sweet, thanks for the relevant rules. Good to know for future reference. During the game we agreed to let the Kor Skyfisher live since we weren't sure. It didn't end up mattering anyway since he only had 7 life and had just attacked with his last flyer.
April 14, 2011 10:40 p.m.
MTGprojectzer0 says... #8
what if he casted test before declaring blockers?
April 15, 2011 4:45 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #9
It'd still be the same result, because it's still keyed off of damage being prevented, which is still only dealt that one time in the combat damage step.
Rhadamanthus says... #1
Because Test of Faith, puts the counters on for the damage "prevented this way", the counters don't get put on the creature until the damage is actually prevented. That means the counters aren't on the Steward until after combat damage has already been assigned and dealt, and the Skyfisher only ends up taking 4 damage from the Steward in combat, surviving.
April 14, 2011 5:12 p.m.