Turn vs. Giant Growth
Asked by Rayenous 12 years ago
I have a 4/4 creature that is currently a 3/3 due to a Giant Growth cast earlier in the turn, and the opponent casts the Turn portion of Turn / Burn on it.
Does my creature become a 0/1 or a 3/4? I am uncertain if temporary P/T modifying effects like Giant Growth simply add the +3/+3 at the time of casting, or if it applies a continuos effect that lasts until the end of turn.
I know Counters, and effects from Auras or other continuous effects, like Collective Blessing will continue to apply their effects. It's just temporary modifiers like Giant Growth I am unsure of.
The creature would be 3/4 because these effects modify different layers. Turn sets the P/T to 0/1, but the Giant Growth operates on a separate layer and continues applying the +3/+3 bonus. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=judge/article/20091105a
May 14, 2013 12:10 p.m.
Your creature becomes a 0/1 as the timestamp on Turn overwrites that of Giant Growth . If cast the other way around you'd end with a 3/4 creature.
May 14, 2013 12:11 p.m.
PenitentKnight says... #4
Agree with graft, both cards are separate modifiers.
May 14, 2013 12:13 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #5
The creature in question receives +3/+3 until end of turn, regardless of what original P/T are. If the creature is turned into a 0/1, it's still a 3/4 regardless of the order that Giant Growth and Turn / Burn were played.
May 14, 2013 12:17 p.m.
Thanks Graft!
The link helped greatly.
Both parts are applied in layer 7, but are on different sub-layers. Turn / Burn is 7(B), while Giant Growth is 7(C). As such, Turn / Burn gets applied first, making it 0/1, and then Giant Growth making it a 3/4.
7(B) = "All P/T effects that set either P/T or both to a specific number or value"
7(C) = "Effects that modify Power/Toughness so long as they dont set P/T to a specific value"
This really does seem counter intuitive, as most people who understand "Time Stamp" ordering would assume the +3/+3 is applied first, then the "becomes 0/1"... but it's important to remember that "sets to specific #/#" is always applied before "adjusts by #/#"
May 14, 2013 12:32 p.m.
Your creature becomes a 3/4 because of the order of layered effects. Layer 7B applies the P/T setting effect of being a 0/1 with no abilities, then layer 7C applies and adds +3/+/3 to the already set CDA (Characteristic Defining Ability) of Layer 7B.
graft's link is a great example of all the different layers and how they interact.
Rayenous says... #1
Oops...! I meant to say "...is currently a 7/7..."
May 14, 2013 12:03 p.m.