Strive and casting spells for free
Asked by JasonMB 10 years ago
So, strive seems like it's an additional cost to cast a spell. Yet, if a card lets you cast a card for free, and you choose a strive card, well it seems like the spell of strive says you can target as many creatures or whatnot as you want. So, if I then target 5 creatures with it, that should still be free. The original text of the spell says to target as many as you want. Not like a card with overload that has an alternate casting cost or cards with kicker.
So, a specific example. I cast Oracle of Bones . Tribute is not paid. I then choose to cast Harness by Force for free. That sorcery spell specifically says "Gain control of ANY number..." so IMO, I can target any number and it's still free to cast.
Opinions and rulings on this?
Strive is a cost increase (it is not technically an additional cost, but it is very similar). To cast a spell without paying its mana cost, all that gets ignored is the base actual mana cost of the spell (printed in the upper right corner), not any additional costs, cost increases, or cost reductions. You still have to pay the strive cost for additional targets.
From the Journey into Nyx release notes:
If a spell or ability allows you to cast a strive spell without paying its mana cost, you must pay the strive cost for each target beyond the first.
April 27, 2014 11:41 p.m.
billpasdmf says... #3
Stive always says "costs x more to cast for each target beyond the first." I don't see why casting it w/out paying it's mana cost (Harness by Force costing 1RR) would enable you to get around that. If you don't pay the extra costs, you don't get the extra targets.
Chalk that up under "opinions," I suppose.
April 27, 2014 11:42 p.m.
As far as "getting around" that, because the spell the gets casted for free has text that says to target any you want. Ignoring any wording on the card that has to do with casting it, that's the text of the card. So when you cast it for free and follow the text on the card, it would seem to allow you to target all you want.
Thanks for the ruling though, I was looking for that but only found an article about the new mechanics but it didn't go into details.
April 27, 2014 11:51 p.m.
And strive says X more to cast for each additional target. So, if it ends up being 15, that wouldn't really matter, it still would be 0. As strictly following the wording of the card and strive ability. The ruling on strive is needed to keep it from being broken that way. But, reading it as is, it is different than kicker or overload or other additional cost spells. As those don't say "Do all of this" but if you do you pay more. They say "do this" and if you want to pay more than you can do more. Not the case on wording with strive.
April 27, 2014 11:54 p.m.
But, reading it as is, it is different than kicker or overload or other additional cost spells.
Overload is an alternate cost, not an additional cost. Kicker is indeed an additional cost. You are correct that strive is not an additional cost (it is a "cost increase") but as far as gameplay goes they can be treated exactly the same way in most cases.
April 27, 2014 11:59 p.m.
billpasdmf says... #7
Paying more mana into strive to add more targets is not part of it's mana cost. The mana cost of a spell is what is represented on the top of the card and nothing more. Getting to play a card "without payint its mana cost" only refers to that, not what you would potentially pay more, as per its strive cost.
As far as the wording on the card goes, it explicitly says the 'pay more for more bit' before the 'any number of targets' bit. Having more than one target is contingent on paying for those targets, regardless of any replacement effect on the mana cost.
GoblinsInc says... #1
Strive works as an additional cost. When you cast a spell "Without paying its mana cost" that means the cost in the top right corner of the card. Additional costs still need to be paid.
April 27, 2014 11:39 p.m.