Regarding Bestow and Brave the Elements
Asked by Goalith 11 years ago
So lets say I have a Favored Hoplite
with Hopeful Eidolon
bestow on it.
If my opponen tcasts Ray of Dissolution
on my Hopeful Eidolon
, can I respond with Brave the Elements
to prevent the it from being destroyed?
Yes. The Hopeful Eidolon is bestowed on the Favored Hoplite , but it is in fact still a creature, so it can be targeted by Brave the Elements to save it.
December 1, 2013 1:45 a.m.
Ignore my previous answer, I forgot the bestow rules text.
December 1, 2013 1:46 a.m.
It occurs to me that you might have been thinking about this in a more complicated way. That the Favoured Hoplite getting pro white would make the Eidolon fall off, and become a creature, but that still won't work.
Brave the Elements only makes your creatures gain pro white at the time the spell resolves, for a duration of 'until end of turn' new creatures you play afterwards (or that become creatures afterwards) won't have protection, and the Eidolon will still be an enchantment (albeit an enchantment creature) and still die to the Ray.
December 1, 2013 1:47 a.m.
smash10101 says... #5
While Devonin is right that it will still be destroyed, it actually works a bit differently. You cast Brave the Elements naming white in response to Ray of Dissolution Favored Hoplite gets pro white till EOT and Hopeful Eidolon falls off and becomes a creature. Assuming you do nothing else, Brave the Elements resolves and destroys Hopeful Eidolon . Your opponent gains 3 life.
December 1, 2013 1:49 a.m.
@smash10101 You meant to say Ray of Dissolution resolves. Also, what you're describing is exactly what I said, not different at all.
December 1, 2013 1:52 a.m.
CamperCarl00 says... #9
Actually, the people above me are completely wrong, lol. When you cast Brave the Elements it gives "all white creatures you control get protection from the color of your choice until the end of the turn." If you choose white, then as Brave the Elements resolves, Hopeful Eidolon unattaches itself from Favored Hoplite and then as a state based action is recognized as "a creature you control" since you have the effect of Brave the Elements until the end of the turn. Because Ray of Dissolution is a white spell, Hopeful Eidolon is now an illegal target and therefore Ray of Dissolution is countered. So no, it won't be destroyed, and no your opponent will not gain 3 life since the target was illegal.
December 1, 2013 3:36 a.m.
CamperCarl00 Sorry, but that's quite incorrect.
First for Hopeful Eidolon to even fall off, Brave the Elements has to have resolved. There's no in between phase like you described. The spell comes off the stack, the effect happens and any triggers, abilities and state-based actions that happen in response are handled accordingly. Additionally that's not how "until end of turn" effects are handled. Brave the Elements even has additional ruling text as a reminder of this.
"Only white creatures you control at the time Brave the Elements resolves gain the protection ability. Creatures that come under your control later in the turn, or that turn white later in the turn, won't have it." - Brave the Elements.
December 1, 2013 3:49 a.m.
CamperCarl00 says... #11
I thought that it would fall off as a state-based action, meaning that it would fall off during resolution. I'm not sure if this would get around the ruling or not though.
December 1, 2013 3:57 a.m.
It does occur as a state-based action, but state-based actions have their own timing as well. They get checked whenever a player would receive priority, and then all appropriate actions are taken simultaneously. The state-based action to drop Hopeful Eidolon won't occur until after the spell has resolve, meaning it won't receive the protection since it wasn't a creature during that time.
December 1, 2013 4:18 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #13
Note that even if the Eidolon fell off during the resolution of Brave the Elements (which it won't, as was explained by others earlier), it still wouldn't get protection. The Eidolon wasn't a creature at the time protection was given, and the game won't back up and "re-resolve" Brave's effect when the Eidolon becomes a creature.
December 1, 2013 9:36 a.m.
@Rhadamanthus, my question would be is, if you gave the hoplite pro white and the eidolon fell off and became a creature, would it be considered a new object now which would make Ray of Dissolution fizzle as it's target is no longer valid? Or is it still considered the same object because it never left the battlefield, it just turned from an enchantment-aura into an enchantment creature?
December 1, 2013 1:31 p.m.
abenz419 No, it's the same object it just changes a type, somewhat similiar to say keyrunes - it never stops being that object it just changes its type. It's not re-entering the field or anything like that that would cause it to be considered a new object.
This can also work in your favor like say someone kills your creature that was enchanted. A bestow won't have summoning sickness if you controlled it at the beginning of the turn and despite how a lot of folks stack their cards, enchantments are not tapped with the creature when it attacks.
December 1, 2013 5:36 p.m.
yeah I pretty much figured that's how it worked since it wasn't leaving or reentering the battlefield, but I figured there was probably some other people who may have been wondering the same thing so I figured why not get it clarified.
As far as the enchantments not tapping, that I was aware of, but it's also another good thing to point out because most people do tap their enchantments when they are attached to a creature that is attacking and then the situation seems to come up where they ask "does this stay tapped since the creature It was enchanting was tapped". So very good point.
Devonin says... Accepted answer #1
No. While it is bestowed, Hopeful Eidolon is an enchantment - aura and not a creature. It can't be targeted with Brave the Elements at that time.
December 1, 2013 1:44 a.m.