Problem with Manifest
Asked by Colten_Lee 10 years ago
So, a manifested permanent can be turned face-up for its Mana cost if it's a creature card. No big deal there. My problem is on the comp rules from Gatherer, 701.31a, says that "It becomes a face-down 2/2 creature card" among other things. Sooo, what's the deal?
Colten_Lee says... #2
Yeah, it says that you can turn it face up for Mana cost if its a creature card, but that rule says that when you manifest a card it becomes a creature card...so wouldn't that mean I could turn anything face up? Which, I'm about 99.99% sure I can't, but the other way the rule is worded should be changed I think.
February 17, 2015 11:08 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
It doesn't become a creature card. It becomes a creature permanent. It's only a creature card if the front face is has the type "Creature."
February 17, 2015 11:11 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #4
Go to the very next item in the CR:
701.31b Any time you have priority, you may turn a manifested permanent you control face up. This is a special action that doesn't use the stack (see rule 115.2b). To do this, show all players that the card representing that permanent is a creature card and what that card's mana cost is, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. The effect defining its characteristics while it was face down ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. (If the card representing that permanent isn't a creature card or it doesn't have a mana cost, it can't be turned face up this way.)
701.31a doesn't need to use the word "card" to work, but it probably does so to make it clear that the object is still a card, since a player may confuse the use of a Manifest overlay with being a token. 701.31b tells us that a manifested permanent can only be turned face up if the front face of the card is an actual creature card.
February 17, 2015 11:14 a.m.
Colten_Lee says... #5
Okay, that makes sense. BC the next one says, "that the card representing that permanent is a creature card" makes sense now, it is just used for defining purposes I guess. Thanks for the info though, that one just confused me.
February 17, 2015 11:17 a.m.
"4/ If you do that and it is not a creature, turn it back face down"
You probably did not read far enough in the rules. That is covered in some of the following points for manifest, specifically:
701.31e A face-down permanent represented by an instant or sorcery card can't be turned face up. If an effect instructs a player to turn one face up, its controller reveals it and leaves it face down. Abilities that trigger whenever a permanent is turned face up won't trigger.
Anyways,even though something is a creature card when face down, it has to be a creature card face up to be able to turned and remain face up.
In this case, a 2/2 creature card means "a card that is a 2/2 creature". It is a physical card from the top of the library, rather than a token. And it is a creature with 2 power and toughness.
I am sure wizards worked very hard on the wording to make it both clear and consistent with morph, while flavorfully being a proto-morph mechanic.
Boza says... #1
I do not understand the issue. Manifest is a fairly simeple one to understand:
1/ cast a spell that lets you manifest, say Soul Summons.2/ Take the top card of the library and put it into play face down. It becomes a 2/2 creature without anything written on it. very similar to cards with Morph, like Abzan Guide, for simplicity's sake.3/ If it is a creature card, you pay its mana cost and turn it face up.4/ If you do that and it is not a creature, turn it back face down.5/ If it is a creature card with morph, you pay either its mana cost or its morph cost to turn face up.
Do you have a specific problem with the mechanic?
February 17, 2015 11:06 a.m.