Obliterator, Flail, and Trample
Asked by djgunn 13 years ago
So, another two part question. Let's say I have out a Phyrexian Obliterator , equipped with an card:Inquisitor's Flail. The Obliterator has trample, if you block with, say... a 5/5, would the 5 additional damage trample though? How does that interact?
Also, the flip side of that coin, which is kind of the same question. Am I really hurting myself if I block your 6/6 trampler with my Obliterator (Flail equipped) and letting not just 1, but 7 damage roll over to me?
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
That is incorrect. From the Oracle ruling on card:Inquisitor's Flail:
9/22/2011: If you divide the combat damage dealt by the equipped creature, perhaps because the creature has trample or is dealing combat damage to multiple creatures, you'll divide the original amount and then double the results. For example, if a 5/5 creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature, you can assign 2 damage to the blocker and 3 damage to the defending player. These amounts are then doubled to 4 and 6 damage, respectively. You can't double the damage to 10 first and then assign 2 to the creature and 8 to the player.
In the first example, your Phyrexian Obliterator would deal 10 damage to the blocking creature. It must assign lethal damage to the blocker, which in this case happens to be all of Obliterator's power. Then, the damage is doubled. 10 damage is dealt to the blocking creature, but nothing can be assigned to the defending player.
In the second example, your opponent would assign 5 damage to the Obliterator and 1 damage to you. This would then be doubled, meaning your Obliterator receives 10 damage and you receive 2.
December 13, 2011 2:07 p.m.
Sorry about the incorrect answer, then. Thank you for fixing my mistake, Epochalyptik.
December 13, 2011 2:15 p.m.
I actually just found it on oracle myself. Thanks, Epochalyptik!
December 13, 2011 2:26 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #5
Epoch, I believe in example #2, the defending player would receive 1 damage. Assigning damage to a player with trample is not the same as assigning damage to the creature that blocked the creature with trample and thus I see no reason why Inquisitor Flail on the defending creature would double the damage assigned to the blocking player.
December 13, 2011 3:03 p.m.
Ah yes, mozerdozer makes a valid point. It only doubles the damage the obliterator would take, not the damage that rolls over him.
December 13, 2011 3:14 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
In the example Oracle quote the numbers are both doubled; I am going with what is implied there. I'll admit it doesn't seem correct given the wording, but it's what the Oracle states.
December 13, 2011 6:56 p.m.
BrightGreenLine says... #8
mozerdozer is correct about example 2: You'd only take 1 damage, while your Phyrexian Obliterator would take 10. When damage assignment is done the attacking player would assign 5 damage to the Obliterator and 1 to you. Then, when that damage is dealt the replacement effect from card:Inquisitor's Flail will replace the 5 damage dealt to the Obliterator with 10, and the 1 damage dealt to you will be unreplaced.
December 13, 2011 7:21 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
I see the error. The Oracle example applies to an equipped attacking creature with trample, whereas the second question is assuming the opposite.
December 13, 2011 7:27 p.m.
Just a follow up question to clarify my curiosity about this situation. The opponent in this situation would have to sacrifice 10 permanents wouldn't they?
December 14, 2011 10:19 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
Yes. The replacement effect created by Flail will affect how much damage is done to and by Obliterator. If your opponent deals damage to Obliterator, then the replacement effect will also matter when the Obliterator's ability triggers.
Ezekiel says... #1
1) card:Inquisitor's Flail specifically says "If equipped creature would deal combat damage, it deals double that damage instead". This means that the creature equipped with the flail will deal double the damage, but that does NOT give the creature double strike.
So if you had a Phyrexian Obliterator equipped with card:Inquisitor's Flail, it would deal 10 damage instead of 5. Because it's being blocked by a 5/5, 5 of the 10 damage would go through due to trample.
2) card:Inquisitor's Flail also says "If another creature would deal combat damage to equipped creature, it deals double that damage to equipped creature instead". This means that any damage done to your Obliterator would be doubled.
So if your Obliterator is equipped with a flail and it blocks a 6/6 trampler, the trampler would deal 12 damage to your Obliterator (because of card:Inquisitor's Flail), and the remaining 7 damage would hit you.
However, if you chose to block in that situation, your Phyrexian Obliterator would deal 10 damage (due to the Flail) to the 6/6 creature, with 4 damage going to your opponent (due to trample).
I hope that helps!
December 13, 2011 1:57 p.m.