Massacre Wurm and tokens

Asked by Wizard of the Damned 13 years ago

Say my opponent has 5 1/1 tokens And I play a Massacre Wurm . Since the massacre wurm's ability says "when a creature your opponent controls is pur into the graveyard that opponent loses 2 life", I'm correct in thinking thus does not count for tokens since they don't technically go to the graveyard?

MagnorCriol says... Accepted answer #1

Tokens do go to the graveyard, actually.

A token in any zone other than the battlefield ceases to exist the next time SBAs are checked. (704.5d If a token is phased out, or is in a zone other than the battlefield, it ceases to exist.) However, it does go to the graveyard before it disappears, and triggers all abilities related to such an action, including the Wurm's.

September 7, 2011 6:29 p.m.

tyrannosaurusrex says... #2

Where in the rule book does it state that tokens go to the graveyard? I have been confused on this subject recently as well. The rule book makes it seem like the tokens don't go to the graveyard since it says they are phased out.

September 8, 2011 12:36 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #3

What? Only permanents with phasing can... well, phase.

110.5f A token that's phased out, or that's in a zone other than the battlefield, ceases to exist. This is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)

Since a token can be destroyed unless it is somehow made indestructible, it will go to the graveyard in the event that that happens. Tokens are permanents, and are treated as such when they are killed/destroyed. This means that they hit their owner's graveyard as any normal permanent would, even though they are subsequently removed by state-based actions.

September 8, 2011 12:41 a.m.

tyrannosaurusrex says... #4

Thank you! A quick reading of the rules about the graveyard helped me out.

404.1. A players graveyard is his or her discard pile. Any object thats countered, discarded, destroyed, or sacrificed is put on top of its owners graveyard, as is any instant or sorcery spell thats finished resolving. Each players graveyard starts out empty.

September 8, 2011 12:56 a.m.

MagnorCriol says... #5

Epochalyptik said it well - tokens are permanents (110.1. A permanent is a card or token on the battlefield...) and as such behave exactly like a permanent. It's not until it leaves the battlefield that it stops being a permanent, and its token-ness takes over.

But for some more rules support, read that ruling I posted carefully for your clue.

704.5d If a token is phased out, or is in a zone other than the battlefield, it ceases to exist.

Note how it specifically mentions tokens being in a zone other than the battlefield.In order for this rule to work at all, tokens have to be able to go to another zone. They don't stay there long, but this rule only takes them away once they're in the other zones, not before.If tokens didn't hit the other zones, the rule would have to be worded something along the lines of a replacement effect ("If a token would be put in another zone, exile it instead,")

September 8, 2011 12:57 a.m.