How to read Call to the Kindred?
Asked by Triforce-Finder 11 years ago
I'm not sure how to the passage "If you do, you may put a creature card that shares a creature type with enchanted creature from among them onto the battlefield, then you put the rest of those cards on the bottom of your library in any order." is to be interpreted.
If i don't put a creature onto the field, do I still put the cards on the bottom of the library or is that action tied to the previous one? It seems so, because looking at the cards is separated from the other actions by a full stop, but those last two are separated by a comma. Are there rules on that subject?
Triforce-Finder says... #2
There are two "may" in the text, the second giving me the choice to put a creature on the field or not.
Also, I know it's a hassle, but I'll need an answer that is backed up by some rule or guideline.
September 8, 2013 1:10 a.m.
GreatSword says... #3
You don't need a ruling, it's right there in the text of the card. The second part of the triggered ability is one complete sentence; all if it is dependent on the choice to look at the top 5 cards. If it was dependent on the 2nd "may", it would say "If you do, put the rest of the cards at the bottom of your library in any order". But it doesn't, so it happens regardless of if you put a creature into play.
September 8, 2013 1:53 a.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #4
So the "if you do" phrase is used to tie actions to a optional action. Good to know. Thanks for bearing with me.
p.s. I wasn't referring to a ruling, but rather some kind of guideline on certain often repeated phrases like this one. Like for example the rules dealing with triggered abilities mentioning the use of "when", "whenever" and the like. However, your explanation makes sense, so I doubt my group will doubt it.
September 8, 2013 2:09 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #5
There actually is a rule covering this, but it's pretty dense and difficult to read because of the general way it's written:
117.12. Some spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities read, "[Do something]. If [a player] [does or doesnt], [effect]." or "[A player] may [do something]. If [that player] [does or doesnt], [effect]." The action [do something] is a cost, paid when the spell or ability resolves. The "If [a player] [does or doesnt]" clause checks whether the player chose to pay an optional cost or started to pay a mandatory cost, regardless of what events actually occurred.
The result of all those words is that "if you do..." means "if you take the action that I just finished describing, then follow these next instructions..."
September 8, 2013 8:56 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #6
@Rhadamanthus Thanks, that's really good scrutiny-proof info. "Hard to read" is not half as annoying as "hard to prove" in my group.
But wait, if the optional action before the "if you do" is a cost, can it still be countered? Or can I only prevent the following effects?
September 11, 2013 6:44 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
I'm not sure what you mean by "can it still be countered?" A spell or ability can be countered before it starts to resolve (only by effects that say they can counter it, of course; there aren't many effects in the game that can counter abilities), but not after it's already started resolving.
Though the majority of costs you pay during a game will be while casting a spell or activating an ability, paying costs isn't restricted to those times. It's possible to be asked to pay a cost during the resolution of a spell or ability, which is how Call to the Kindred works. As described by Rule 117.12, "look at the top five cards of your library" is an optional cost that you can choose to pay as the triggered ability of Call to the Kindred is resolving. If you pay it, then rest of the effect gives you instructions on what to do next.
Did I answer the question? If not, maybe try asking it a different way.
September 11, 2013 10:42 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #8
Yes, that helped, thanks. I was thinking about the fact that paying costs for activation can't be countered, like ninjutsu will bounce even if countered because bouncing an attacker is part of the activation cost. But costs payed on the ability resolving clearly are not activation costs, so a counter targeting the ability will counter it completely, including the possibility to look at the cards. The initial question was answered perfectly anyway, that was more of a second idea resulting from the answer.
That "hard to read" problem grows exponentially when those timestamps trick me into staying up until 4am. It's much clearer now that I had some sleep. Different timezones suck sometimes...
GreatSword says... #1
Call to the Kindred 's triggered ability is a "may" ability, so you will make a decision upon the resolution of the ability. In this case, you're making the choice to look at the top 5 cards of your library. If you don't, the ability stops there but if you do, you finish the rest of it. If you end up failing to find a creature to put onto the battlefield, you will put the 5 cards you looked at on the bottom of your library.
September 8, 2013 1:01 a.m.