Golgari Guildmage
Asked by Arachnarchist 13 years ago
I just need confirmation on this:
While using the first ability, can you return the sacrificed creature to your hand?
metalmagic says... #2
No. It seems like you should be able to, but because of the order of things to be done while casting spells/activating abilities, you cannot. First you move the card to the stack, followed by choosing targets, and THEN you pay all costs. Since you choose the target first, your creature will not be in the grave from sacrificing it to the cost of the ability.
May 7, 2012 9:26 p.m.
metalmagic says... #3
601.2. - Casting a spell follows the steps listed below, in order.
601.2a The player announces that he or she is casting the spell. That card (or that copy of a card) moves from where it is to the stack. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has all the characteristics of the card (or the copy of a card) associated with it, and that player becomes its controller. The spell remains on the stack until its countered, it resolves, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
601.2b If the spell is modal the player announces the mode choice (see rule 700.2). If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 702.45), he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell has alternative or additional costs that will be paid as its being cast such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs (see rules 117.8 and 117.9), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2e). A player cant apply two alternative methods of casting or two alternative costs to a single spell. If the spell has a variable cost that will be paid as its being cast (such as an X in its mana cost; see rule 107.3), the player announces the value of that variable. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes hybrid mana symbols, the player announces the nonhybrid equivalent cost he or she intends to pay. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes Phyrexian mana symbols, the player announces whether he or she intends to pay 2 life or the corresponding colored mana cost for each of those symbols. Previously made choices (such as choosing to cast a spell with flashback from a graveyard or choosing to cast a creature with morph face down) may restrict the players options when making these choices.
Split into two posts because they won't fit in one :/
May 7, 2012 9:30 p.m.
metalmagic says... #4
601.2c The player announces his or her choice of an appropriate player, object, or zone for each target the spell requires. A spell may require some targets only if an alternative or additional cost (such as a buyback or kicker cost), or a particular mode, was chosen for it; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not require those targets. If the spell has a variable number of targets, the player announces how many targets he or she will choose before he or she announces those targets. The same target cant be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word target on the spell. However, if the spell uses the word target in multiple places, the same object, player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word target (as long as it fits the targeting criteria). If any effects say that an object or player must be chosen as a target, the player chooses targets so that he or she obeys the maximum possible number of such effects without violating any rules or effects that say that an object or player cant be chosen as a target. The chosen players, objects, and/or zones each become a target of that spell. (Any abilities that trigger when those players, objects, and/or zones become the target of a spell trigger at this point; theyll wait to be put on the stack until the spell has finished being cast.)
May 7, 2012 9:30 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #5
@rckclimber777: Actually, you select the targets before you pay the costs. Paying the costs for a spell or ability is the final step in casting/activating it. Therefore, you can't target the creature you're sacrificing to activate Golgari Guildmage's ability.
May 7, 2012 9:40 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #6
metalmagic is right I got lazy
here is the rest of the rules applicable to this (note that the mana cost is paid as step g whereas the targets were chosen in step c):
601.2d If the spell requires the player to divide or distribute an effect (such as damage or counters) among one or more targets, the player announces the division. Each of these targets must receive at least one of whatever is being divided.601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be Mana0.gif. It can't be reduced to less than Mana0.gif. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.601.2f If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, "Mana Abilities"). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid.601.2g The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can't be paid.
Example: You cast Altar's Reap, which costs Mana1.gifManab.gif and has an additional cost of sacrificing a creature. You sacrifice Thunderscape Familiar, whose effect makes your black spells cost Mana1.gif less to cast. Because a spell's total cost is "locked in" before payments are actually made, you pay Manab.gif, not Mana1.gifManab.gif, even though you're sacrificing the Familiar.601.2h Once the steps described in 601.2ag are completed, the spell becomes cast. Any abilities that trigger when a spell is cast or put onto the stack trigger at this time. If the spell's controller had priority before casting it, he or she gets priority.
May 7, 2012 9:42 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #7
yea its been a long day and I got lazy lol. I'll come back to the questions when I'm not as mentally exhausted lol
May 7, 2012 9:43 p.m.
metalmagic says... #8
:( I said what Epoch said, except way sooner. Sad day sigh
May 8, 2012 11:18 a.m.
Arachnarchist says... #11
I chose epochs so that if a new player looks at this thread trying to find the correct answer he doesn't have to sift through two posts of rules to find it.
rckclimber777 says... #1
When you activate the ability you'll pay the cost before declaring a target. The creature is put in the graveyard as part of the cost which means it should be in the graveyard as a legal target. Costs are payed prior to the the activation of the ability.
May 7, 2012 9:22 p.m.