Cumulative Upkeep Specific Timing

Asked by SteelNinja 11 years ago

Can I put a Vexing Sphinx upkeep trigger on the stack, put the age counter on it, then use Sundial of the Infinite to prevent myself from discarding, or are the counter placement and cost parts of the same effect on the stack?

Drilnoth says... Accepted answer #1

The comp. rules, for reference

702.23a Cumulative upkeep is a triggered ability that imposes an increasing cost on a permanent. "Cumulative upkeep [cost]" means "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent is on the battlefield, put an age counter on this permanent. Then you may pay [cost] for each age counter on it. If you don't, sacrifice it." If [cost] has choices associated with it, each choice is made separately for each age counter, then either the entire set of costs is paid, or none of them is paid. Partial payments aren't allowed.

There is no point between putting the counter on the Vexing Sphinx and being given the opportunity to pay the cumulative upkeep cost. You cannot use Sundial of the Infinite between the two actions.

April 10, 2014 10:25 p.m.

pskinn01 says... #2

wrong....the cumulative upkeep is a triggered ability...you put the counter on the sphinx...then the ability that causes you to discard goes on the stack...at that point you have priority....

April 10, 2014 10:31 p.m.

SteelNinja says... #3

Got it, thanks. Less amazingly broken than I thought. :/

April 10, 2014 10:33 p.m.

pskinn01 says... #4

@SteelNinja What happens is at the beginning of your upkeep before anyone gets priority, abilities like Cumulative Upkeep go on the stack. Now you have a chance to respond to it. So you could end your turn before having to pay the cost....

from the gatherer:
The earliest that you can activate Sundial of the Infinite 's ability is during your upkeep step, after abilities that trigger "at the beginning of your upkeep" have been put onto the stack but before they resolve.

April 10, 2014 10:47 p.m.

Draugo says... #5

pskinn01 Putting the age counter on the permanent is part of the resolution of cumulative upkeep so if you end the turn before the upkeep starts to resolve you do not put age counter on the permanent. You first put the upkeep on the stack, then when it starts to resolve you put an age counter and then choose to either pay the cost or sacrifice it.

April 11, 2014 1:46 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #6

@pskinn01: In the quoted rule, everything from "At the beginning of your upkeep..." to "...if you don't, sacrifice it" is a single triggered ability. The choice of whether to pay the cost for cumulative upkeep happens during the resolution of the same ability that adds an age counter. It isn't a separate triggered ability. If you add an age counter that means the Cumulative Upkeep trigger is resolving, and you won't be able to make any more responses until it's completely finished resolving.

April 11, 2014 9:21 a.m.