Could you get two triggers on Sidisi, Brood Tyrant by using Mirror Mockery?
Asked by WolvenKnightmare 9 years ago
So say you were playing a whip deck or something, and you had Sidisi, Brood Tyrant out with a Mirror Mockery attached, and she attacks.
So Sidisi's attack trigger and Mockery's attack trigger go on simultaneously (I then choose which goes first as it's my turn), so say Mockery's goes on first, thus putting a copy of Sidisi onto the battlefield... or does it? So, does the legend rule ever have this Sidisi hit the battlefield, or is one chosen to go to the graveyard before the second would ever enter?
Assuming it does force the above, as I believe the now-defunct Enchant World rule states, you could only get away with this (other than choosing to put Copy Sidisi in the graveyard, but that wouldn't achieve anything):
-Original Sidisi swings, puts her and Mockery's ability on stack, I choose Mockery's to resolve, putting my original Sidisi into the graveyard and allowing the copy to enter as Mockery's ability resolves, thus putting Mirror Mockery into the graveyard along with the original Sidisi, -Copy Sidisi's ETB now triggers, with Original Sidisi's attack trigger still on the stack. I allow Copy Sidisi's to resolve, putting my top 3 cards of my deck into the GY (at which point any creatures entering would trigger Copy Sidisi's other trigger for Zombie tokens), then the Original Sidisi's resolves putting 3 in as well, and Copy Sidisi's last ability could trigger for creatures going to the grave as well.-Proceed through combat; at end of phase, exile Copy Sidisi. Potential of 6 Zombie tokens in best scenario on this situation alone without other factors.
This seems like the likely outcome, though much more dissappointing than getting both static abilites to allow twice as many Zombie tokens getting out by letting the Sidisi's triggers all resolve before saccing the copy, or atleast getting an ETB from Copy Sidisi.
Am I right in my thought process on this, or is one of the latter situations (or an entirely different one) more correct? Thanks!
Yes because Sidisi, Brood Tyrant make zombies ability doesn't care what's milling the cards and isn't directly tied to the first ability. They are two seperate triggered abilities.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant swings and you put the Mirror Mockery and her attack trigger on the stack. Doesn't matter how you want to resolve them. Sidisi, Brood Tyrant copy enters the battlefield and triggers her ETB. As soon as someone gets priority the Legendary rule makes you bin one of them as a state-based action, presumably the copy. Original Sidisi, Brood Tyrant is still around and there is a mill three cards ETB still on the stack.
Note that this split trigger also can hurt you with this play as well since they can kill the Sidisi, Brood Tyrant or the copy with all the mill on the stack and you don't get anything.
June 11, 2015 12:48 a.m. Edited.
FranklinMussen says... #3
I just looked and I would be correct the state based action rule 704.1 explains this in more depth. But it comes down to having two legendary creatures of the same name under your control which for a lack of a better term, breaks the game. For the game to go forward this has to be fixed by destroying one of the two creatures.
June 11, 2015 12:50 a.m.
Slycne, your explanation is correct, but you missed part of the question.
On the bit where WolvenKnightmare was asking if the copy Sidisi's second ability would trigger to get you an extra set of zombies. The answer is no. As Slycne said, the extra Sidisi is put into the yard as a state-based action. There's no way for her to stick around long enough to spawn zombies. All you get from this is an extra 3 cards milled, and 1 extra possible zombie from not-copy Sidisi.
June 11, 2015 3:15 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #5
Only one Sidisi will be on the battlefield at the time the token's ETB trigger resolves.
The Legend Rule is handled by a state based action (SBA), and SBAs are checked and executed right before each time a player would get priority. This means you need to put one Sidisi into the graveyard after the token's ETB ability triggers but right before it's actually put onto the stack. The ETB trigger from the token doesn't go away if you choose to get rid of it, but regardless only one Sidisi will be able to give you zombies from it.
June 11, 2015 12:45 p.m.
Just a note but The legend rule doesn't destroy a creature, but has you put one of the cards into your graveyard as a state based action, not quite the same but could matter depending on what cards are in the game.
If the same player controls two or more legendary permanents of the same name, that player will choose one of those permanents, and the others are sent to their owners' graveyards when state-based effects are checked. This is not a destruction effect, and can't be prevented by regeneration or indestructibility.
704.5k If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners' graveyards. This is called the "legend rule".
June 11, 2015 1:30 p.m.
WolvenKnightmare says... #7
Thanks guys! So, simply put, Mirror Mockery does its job, and gets a token out long enough to induce more self-mill, but nothing else. My main concern was with how the Legend rule operated, as whether it allowed the copy to hit the battlefield, thus triggering it's ETB, or forced the destination to be decided prior to placing the token somewhere.
I believe the key point in the legend rule would be "controls", thus the token must have entered, and once priority has passed from the trigger, the state-check would force one of the Sidisis to the grave as a state-based action.
Thanks again!
June 11, 2015 6:17 p.m.
Well, yes... but you lost me at "once priority has passed from the trigger."
State-based actions are checked before any player gets priority, every time a player would get priority. Then any triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put there. Then the appropriate player gets priority. This all happens long before anyone gets a chance to pass priority.
In this case the legend rule is invoked directly after Mirror Mockery's trigger finishes resolving (putting the copy into play), then the copy's ETB goes on the stack (regardless of whether you chose to put it in your graveyard), then the active player gets priority.
If this question is resolved for you you should pick an answer so it will be cleared from the active questions queue.
June 11, 2015 6:31 p.m.
WolvenKnightmare says... #9
My bad, forgot to mark an answer, but yes, that's what I meant, though I worded it incorrectly. Priority is still a little messy in placement for me at times
FranklinMussen says... #1
I believe the legend rule would work against you in this case. As soon as that copy comes out you would have two copies of the same legendary creature, in which case one would have to be removed. I could be wrong, but don't think so.
June 11, 2015 12:40 a.m.