Can Sea-Dasher Octopus stop the Legend Rule?
Asked by itzmasterz 3 years ago
If I use Lithoform Engine to copy a legendary creature, am I able to mutate Sea-Dasher Octopus onto the copy before the legend rule applies? Will holding priority help at all?
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #2
Polaris: Are you sure that's how it works? It just seems wrong. Mutate allows you to put the creature with mutate over or under target creature you control. This wording demands a creature on the battlefield, not a creature spell on the stack.
So I think this doesn't actually work as OP intends.
January 14, 2022 10:28 a.m.
It works because the original and copy don't enter together. You cast the original, then activate Lithoform Engine targeting it. That resolves and makes a copy of the spell. Once the copy resolves, you hold priority and mutate the Octopus on it, then let the original resolve.
January 14, 2022 10:37 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #4
I should properly read comments to the end, I missed that part of your answer.
January 14, 2022 11:17 a.m.
itzmasterz says... #5
I’m realizing now that lithoform engine can’t copy permanents that are already on the battlefield… whoops.
BUT, thank you so much guys, I really appreciate it.
For EDH: If you mutate onto your commander, and they are removed in such a way that you want them put back into the command zone, whatever you have mutated onto it will go to the command zone as well. I obviously don’t want that, and this question popped into my head at 3 AM and I just had to know.
January 15, 2022 12:18 a.m.
Commanderness is a property of the card only commanders and planeswalker emblems can be in the command zone. The rest of the mutate stack will end up in whatever zone the commander was originally sent to. See rule 903.9c:
If a commander is a melded permanent or a merged permanent and its owner chooses to put it into the command zone using the replacement effect described in rule 903.9b, that permanent and each component representing it that isn’t a commander are put into the appropriate zone, and the card that represents it and is a commander is put into the command zone.
Polaris says... Accepted answer #1
Yes, but you have to do it while only one of them is in play.
While most effects and triggers use the stack, the legend rule is part of what are called state-based actions. State-based actions (SBAs) are how the game cleans up anything that needs to change, like creatures that have lethal damage and need to die, tokens that aren't on the battlefield and need to stop existing, triggered abilities that need to go on the stack, etc. SBAs are checked right before players get priority.
Once Lithoform Engine's copy and your legendary creature spell both resolve, SBAs will be checked and will see that you have multiple legendary creatures with the same name, so you'll immediately sacrifice some until you only have one. Only then will you get priority to cast Sea-Dasher Octopus.
What you CAN do, however, is hold priority before your legendary creature spell resolves (after the Lithoform Engine copy comes in) and mutate Sea-Dasher Octopus on top of the copy. Then once the original resolves, you'll have it and a 2/2 Sea-Dasher Octopus that also has its abilities.
January 14, 2022 9:47 a.m.