Abilities and combat step
Asked by Awded 11 years ago
There's a few instances of abilities triggered during combat and how they resolve for which I'm not sure how they turn out. Here are some situations I've come across. If you could include references to the rules so that I could show it to my friend, that would be great!
Situation1: My friend attacks with Butcher Ghoul (without it's counter) and I defend with Goblin Arsonist . They both die and have abilities that goes on the stack. In what order though? Does his go first because it's his turn or does mine go first, his second so that I could kill it once it comes back?
Situation 2: My friend attacks with 2 creatures, a 3/2 and a 1/1 and I defend with Goblin Arsonist . I let my arsonist die to the 3/2 and use it's ability to kill the 1/1. Do I take the 1 damage from the 1/1 or does it die first?
Situation 3: I attack with a 4/5 and my friend defends with a 2/2 and a 1/1 (with a +1/+1 counter) with the ability to gain a +1/+1 counter when one of his creatures die. He puts his 2/2 first in line and then his 1/1. Do only his creatures die because damage is dealt all at once or do they all die because having one creature first in line gave his second in line a +1/+1 for it's death?
First side-question: When players declare attackers and blockers and they get the chance to use instants or abilities, who has the first chance to do so? Does the attacking player get the first chance to use an abilities/instants then the defender after declaring attackers and the defending player gets to use abilities/instants first then the attackers when he declares his defenders?
Second side-question: Before declaring attackers, does a player say that he will attack to give the defending player a chance to do anything before the attacking player taps his creatures?
Thanks in advance guys!
nobu_the_bard says... #2
In Situation 1, Butcher Ghoul comes back as a 2/2 without damage marked on it (effectively a new instance of the creature) so Goblin Arsonist would not be able to kill it anyway. Since it was your opponent's turn and his attack, Goblin Arsonist 's ability would resolve before the Ghoul returned to the field anyway, because simultaneously triggered abilities will go onto the stack in turn order, and effectively resolve in reverse turn order.
In Situation 2, all combat damage is simultaneous (excepting situations where first strike or double strike are involved, which add additional combat damage steps and are mildly more complex). You effectively are getting hit for 1 by the 1/1 at the same time as the Goblin Arsonist is being killed. You can still use the triggered ability to kill the 1/1, but because the same combat damage step that hurt you is when the Arsonist was killed, you won't be able to avoid taking the 1 damage this way.
In Situation 3, again, all combat damage is simultaneous. The creature with the +1/+1 counter ability will be dying during this combat damage step. I'm not sure, but I think its ability would still technically go on the stack, but fail to resolve successfully because the creature is no longer on the battlefield (it depends on the exact wording, not that it matters, most likely).
The active player usually gets priority first, then passes priority to each opponent in turn order. The next step or phase only happens when all players pass priority and the stack is empty. Each player gets an opportunity to do something before the next step/phase.
I'm not sure, for second side-question, what the official behavior is. In practice, I've treated it as the active player declares he is ending the pre-combat main phase and then passes priority around, giving each opponent an opportunity to respond before going into combat proper, but I'm not 100% sure that is exactly how it works.
Sorry, I don't have the time to check my references for the above, that's just experience talking, mistakes and vagueness and all :)
Devonin says... Accepted answer #1
Situation 1: It doesn't matter in which order the abilities go on the stack in this case, because for your Goblin Arsonist you will have to choose a target when the ability goes onto the stack, and at that time, the Butcher Ghoul will still be in the graveyard. The triggers will go on the stack in APNAP order though which means, their Undying triggers, and then your Arsonist triggers, then your Arsonist resolves dealing 1 damage to the target you chose, then their ghoul comes back with a +1/+1 counter. As well, even if the ghoul came back first, it would already have the +1/+1 counter on it, so dealing it 1 damage wouldn't kill it a second time.
Situation 2: Combat damage happens all at once. So if you blocked the 3/2 with the 1/1, you would take 1 damage from his unblocked 1/1, and the 3/2 would deal 3 damage to your blocker and your blocker would deal 1 damage to the 3/2...THEN the arsonist dies, and its ability goes onto the stack, resolves, and lets you deal 1 damage (Generally I'd advise finishing off the 3/2 rather than killing the 1/1, but it depends what creatures they are etc)
Situation 3: He doesn't put his creatures "in line" unless they have banding. The attacking player chooses the damage assignment order for their attacking creatures. Again, all combat damage happens simultaneously, and so you'd deal 2 damage to each of the 2/2 and the 1/1 with the +1/+1 counter on it, which would both deal 2 damage each to your attacker. Then both of their blockers die, so the triggered ability of the 1/1 to gain counters when things die won't enter into it.
Side-question: The 'declare attackers' step happens, and the attacking player declares their attacking creatures. THEN there is a round of priority wherein people may play spells and abilities. Once anything played then resolves, the 'declare blockers' step happens, and the defending player declares their blockers. Then there is another round of priority in which players may play spells and abilities. The active player always gets priority after state-based actions are checked. So if you were the attacking player, you'd declare attackers, and then either also play some things, or pass priority to the next player. If they put something on the stack at that time, you get priority like normal again before whatever they put onto the stack resolves.
Side question 2: Yes, you declare the start of your attack phase, and there is a pass of priority before you enter into the declare attackers step where players may play spells or activate abilities. This is usually the time for the defending player to tap down or destroy your creatures etc to prevent them being declared as attackers.
January 7, 2014 9:18 a.m.