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I am, what is your 4 digit tag? Better yet, find me: noshadowkick#6856
March 20, 2018 1:12 p.m.
@smashadams83. I love Crop Rotation and think it can be an all-star in the right deck (like this one: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/shattergang-lands-brewing/) but I think Id rather run Sylvan Scrying in a list like this. You lose instant speed and have to pay one more mana, but you dont have to sacrifice a land. There are several utility lands this deck wants to find like Shizo or Oran Reif so you should always have a target to dig for. That said, if you have access to Demonic Tutor its obviously way better.
I used to own a copy of Yavimaya Hollow back in the day (when it was a sub $10 card) but it was destroyed in a flood. Ive been meaning to get another copy and I think its a great investment (reserved list and all) but I just havent gotten around to it. Ill definitely pick one up when I can.As far as protection for Hapatra goes, I run less than you, only Greaves. I should probably play Boots as well and may still try to find space for it. She is pretty essential to the strategy of the deck so devoting resources to keeping her on the field is a good call. I prefer Sword of Feast and Famine to Whispersilk Cloak. It provides just a huge payoff for connecting.
Good moves with Bitterblossom and Westvale Abbey Flip. I agree about Rogue's Passage being too costly for this deck. I also have added Forbidden Orchard to my list of cards to acquire for this deck. Seems like a perfect fit, great find. I feel good about my current number of cycling lands (5) along with Geier Reach Sanitarium, I want to be careful of using too many ETB tapped lands because its often a good move to get Hapatra in on turn 2.
There are two other lands Ive been considering. 1) Pendelhaven: This deck has a ton of 1/1s so why not give this a shot over a random forest? In the event Hapatra has to target herself with a counter on turn 3 this could beef her up into a 2/3 on her next combat. Also 2/3 snakes (not as important) and 2/3 faeries. Definitely not essential but the price drop after the Masters 25 reprint caught my attention.
2) Command Beacon: Having to pay 6 or 8 mana for Hapatra can be a real drag late in the game. I like this land in my decks that run expensive commanders, but I think it has a place here as well. I just want to be careful about having too many colorless lands.
Slate of Ancestry is amazing when it is on but really inconsistent, due to how costly it is to activate. I dont think its uncuttable but if I do swap it out Id want to replace it with draw. I do really like the idea of Evolutionary Leap but I dont think its a good 1 for 1 swap. Another draw effect could be Deathreap Ritual, but honestly it just seems like a bad Phyrexian Arena.
The other creatures you suggested besides Undead Gladiator seem too costly for the return effect, even Genesis. I used to run that card in every green deck but I feel like the format has sped up and its just so slow these days. Its not bad, but I dont think this deck can make enough mana to take advantage of it consistently. That said, I dont think we would even need too many of these effects. Survival of the Fittest can always just search up the Gladitaor and pitch him to find another creature, same with Fauna Shaman, albeit more slowly.
As Ive played with my list Ive become less enthusiastic about the Protean Hulk direction and I dont think Im going to try it. I like my current big green creatures as a Natural Order package and if I wanted to run another one Id probably try Terastodon or Woodfall Primus. Fierce Empath is a great alternative to Natural Order though and Id definitely run it if I didnt have a copy of NO.
I like Golgari Charm along with/instead of Heroic Intervention. I havent been able to find room for either card but I definitely think I should be running at least one of them. if I was only going to run one of them I think I like charm more because it has more applications, even though the save my stuff mode is more limited.
Regarding Life from the Loam you definitely want to have enough recursion to make it worthwhile. Im running more than you in Dread Return, Victimize, and Meren of Clan Nel Toth (along with Eternal Witness and Journey to Eternity Flip) and Id run more if I could find space for it. Dread Return is particularly nice with Loam as you can flash it back fairly easily so its not a huge deal if you dump it in the yard. Still, this is more of a token deck than a graveyard deck and dredging isnt really what I want to be doing every game, its just nice as an option. In the average game where I cast Loam I probably only dredge once or twice, if at all. Getting 2-3 lands back to your hand is often good enough as a one shot effect. Zulaport Cutthroat has been fantastic for me so far and I think I want to find room for Blood Artist as well. I do find myself missing sacrifice outlets when I get Cutthroat on the field though. I may have to find room for Yahenni after all .Ive been really enjoying our discussion!
March 19, 2018 11:58 a.m.
@smashadams83, I got a few play tests in with my list and so far so good. Archfiend of Ifnir has been performing really well. One card that's been a total all star is Geier Reach Sanitarium. Having another on board discard effect is priceless with Archfiend. I also want to reiterate how excellent Life From The Loam is in a deck with so many cycling lands. I love seeing it in my opening hand, especially if I have a cycling land. Turn one basic, cycle Barren Moor or Tranquil Thicket, into turn 2 Loam is just great value.
I think my creature count is too low. With Suvival, and Fauna Shaman I would ideally be running 27-30 creatures. I'm going to be trying to find ways to slide more creatures into my list. I'll probably cut some of my non-creature ramp for more creature based options as well as looking for cuts elsewhere. One creature I've been considering that could be Ifnir tech is Undead Gladiator. Not only does it have cycling but it can kind of become it's own perpetual discard engine. It could also be helpful to pull out of the yard if an extra creature spell is needed for Survival or Fauna Shaman. What do you think?
I'm bumping Shizo up to the top of my acquisition list, I definitely need more ways to sneak Hapatra in for damage.
March 18, 2018 12:56 a.m.
All good thoughts. Cut Yahenni and Necro for the swords and cut Ashnod's Altar for Path of Discovery. Altar was a holdover from an old version of this list that had more stax effects and X spells. I agree that it's not really needed in my current iteration. Yahenni appeals to me because in this deck it will almost always be indestructible and will grow as the game progresses. Also, sac outlets are always good. But still, probably not he best fit.
I'd 100% run Earthcraft if I owned a copy, alas I don't and I don't feel like dropping $35 at the moment. Same reasoning for Shizo. If I had earthcraft I think it'd be easier for me to run Harvest Season.
One ramp effect I am considering is Hour of Promise. I'd add Cabal Coffers for sure if I did that. I just don't like how few swamps this deck runs which makes Coffers basically dead without Urborg. There are enough deserts that I could even get the tokens!
I TOTALLY forgot about Protean Hulk. Crap, now I need to find room for that too.
March 13, 2018 2:37 p.m.
@SmashAdams, here is my updated list so far.
I followed your lead and added the same cycling lands to beef up Archfiend and, as such, also added Life from the Loam.
I couldn't bring myself to break up the Natural Order package that can get me token pump (Craterhoof Behemoth), card draw (Regal Force), or an instant board presence (Hornet Queen). Testing may show if it's in the deck's best interest to remove this in order to make space for lower CMC spells like Blood Artist and ilk.
You don't feel that Liliana's Influence is too pricey (mana wise) for the effect? I like that it can spread counters and make tokens but if I don't have a way to take advantage of those counters it's a pretty poor excuse for a board wipe. I'm still on the fence here and haven't added it yet.
Yahenni, Undying Partisan is in because I've been dying to play him and I feel like he could be good. I probably should find room for Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of Fire and Ice though to get maximum value from him. I also feel like the swords would be of great benefit to Hapatra and keep her combat trigger relevant later in the game.
What do I cut for Path of Discovery?The second I get my hands on a Shizo it's going in. That one is a no brainer for sure.
Also, I think Devoted Druid still has a place even without Quillspike. It's fine ramp that can be cashed in for 2 snakes when ramp is not relevant. Also it's a decent creature to stick Journey to Eternity on because I control the death trigger. Also fine Natural Order fodder.
March 13, 2018 1:26 p.m.
I also like Phyrexian Reclamation. I'm going to be working on an update for my list, hopefully will have it posted later today. Thanks for pushing me along haha!
March 13, 2018 9:04 a.m.
One that I think is at the top of the list: Dread Return.
March 13, 2018 8:30 a.m.
I think it's a strong card but I wonder if it's going too far in the discard direction. Cycling lands and Survival/Fauna Shaman have natural synergy with Archfiend without pulling the deck in too many directions, but I'm wary of going too far down the discard path if Archfiend is the only payoff card. I'm already trying to brainstorm ways to make my list more graveyard friendly with all the creatures I'll be pitching to Survival.
March 12, 2018 10:35 p.m.
Imp definitely wins and I'll probably give it a shot in my list. I've been looking for an opportunity to play Protean Hulk, looks like I found the right deck!
March 12, 2018 4:38 p.m.
Nice list and thanks for the post! I really like what you have going on here and will definitely be incorporating a lot of these ideas as I update my list. If you have a copy of Life from the Loam I'd highly recommend it as you can build a cycling land engine and go nuts with card draw. I'm also wondering if there are any half decent 1 mana discard outlet creatures that could be snagged with Archfiend on a Protean Hulk trigger.
I am not a huge fan of infinities so I will probably shy away from Quillspike/Devoted Druid, but I'm thinking of tossing in Birthing Pod as another way to find Archfiend. There's a lot of interesting ways to build Hapatra and I'm pumped to give dive into tuning my list up again. She's next on my to-do.
March 12, 2018 3:19 p.m.
Commander / EDH*
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Commander / EDH
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