Once a spell with cipher has been ciphered, can it be countered from exile?

Asked by MikePlaysMTG 12 years ago

My deck with cipher elements vs. a counter deck,

Devonin says... Accepted answer #1

"Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of the encoded card without paying its mana cost.)"

You're casting the copy. It can be countered like any other spell.

April 16, 2013 11:36 p.m.

aavb132 says... #2

Well, since the text is

  • 702.97a ..."Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control" and "As long as this card is encoded on that creature, that creature has 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy this card and you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.'"

you may, in fact counter the copies made by the cipher (because they count as spells), but since you don't don't actually cast it from exile, the encoded card cannot be countered.

April 16, 2013 11:38 p.m.

tempest says... #3

thats why cipher works well with extort.

April 16, 2013 11:38 p.m.

Jewbuscus says... #4

You can counter them anything that is casted can be countered. Like when omniscience was being play you can cast anycard but they could still be countered...better figure this out before you take it to touri

April 16, 2013 11:41 p.m.

MikePlaysMTG says... #5

Damn w999 i can effing extort and cipher???

April 16, 2013 11:42 p.m.

Jewbuscus says... #6

Yep...your casting it so you can extort it

April 16, 2013 11:43 p.m.

MikePlaysMTG says... #7

Part 2 so if the cipher was coun tered does that mean it would stay exiled and no longer be allowed to be copied like if the creature died or if there were no targets?

April 16, 2013 11:44 p.m.

Jewbuscus says... #8

And go crazy with it...put a curse of echoes on yourself and extort twice haha for free

April 16, 2013 11:45 p.m.

tempest says... #9

no. once its ciphered, it stays ciphered. the encoded spell isn't like a regular card. it stays on the creature. if the creature leaves the battlefield, the encoded spell leaves with the creature. if the creature is brought back, it's treated as a new creature so the encoded spell will not come back.

Curse of Echoes says each other player so unless you enchant them and their cipher goes off, triggering the curse, you cannot extort

April 16, 2013 11:49 p.m.

Jewbuscus says... #10

Ah....thanks goofed on that one haha

April 16, 2013 11:53 p.m.

MikePlaysMTG says... #11

Thanks guys that just made my deck explode. lol

April 16, 2013 11:54 p.m.

MagnorCriol says... #12

w999 (and by extension Jewbuscus): Curse of Echoes won't do anything with Extort no matter who it's stuck on. The way the curse works is the opponents just get to put copies on the stack, but it doesn't have them cast the copies, so you don't get to Extort even if it's on an opponent and he or she casts a spell.

MikePlaysMTG: as w999 said, countering a Cipher card once it's already encoded on a creature won't do anything except stop that particular copy of the spell; the spell will still be encoded on the creature. If your opponent counters the spell the first time you cast it, before it's encoded on a creature, then the spell would be countered and you wouldn't encode it at all; it'd just go to the graveyard. Once they let you encode it, though, they have to get rid of the creature in order to get rid of the spell.

April 16, 2013 11:59 p.m.

tempest says... #13

whoops. thanks for catching that MagnorCriol

April 17, 2013 midnight

MikePlaysMTG says... #14

noob doesn't know how to tag people w999?

April 17, 2013 12:10 a.m.

MikePlaysMTG says... #15

how do i tag ahhh??? lolol

April 17, 2013 12:10 a.m.

tempest says... #16

[ [ w999 ] ] becomes w999 without the brackets.

looks like someone needs to take the comments tutorial...

April 17, 2013 12:48 a.m.

This discussion has been closed