Land card alterations
Asked by Fizzz 10 years ago
Hello all,
I hope this is the right place to ask about this. A friend of mine is doing some real cool alterations of basic lands, he even foils them out. Now to be clear, he uses foiled cards, takes the ink out from the card, leaving the foil part showing, and then places the new art over it. This is in essence a proxy.
I was at a recent SCG open, and one of the player I played against had these lands, foiled land alters and they looked really cool.
This is just altering the card art, and I really did not have any problems with it. The head judge did not have problems with it either.
After asking and checking the rules around, I found the following rulling:
3.3 Authorized Cards
[...]Players may use otherwise-legal non-English and/or misprinted cards provided they are not using them to create an advantage by using misleading text or pictures. Official promotional textless spells are allowed in DCI-sanctioned Magic tournaments in which they would otherwise be legal. Artistic modifications are acceptable, provided that the modifications do not make the card unrecognizable or contain substantial strategic advice.
I would not see this as making the original card unrecognizable,,, as it is just a forest made al foiled and stuff.
Anyway, any of you fine judges would have a problem with this? I would love to have some nice foiled alters in my deck.
I also saw one Ebay vendor that makes this exact thing :)
(no link due to advertising and stuff :))
Im kind of Confused on what exactly you are asking here, but People at my LGS including the judge at my LGS are all fine w/full art proxies as long the card is recognizable, So if I am reading you question right than I would say yes
February 13, 2015 4:06 p.m.
You mean like this? 
I made these myself for my Swift-Delver Miracle-Burn deck
February 13, 2015 7:14 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #5
Personally I would not permit these at a sanctioned event for a few reasons. I'd be curious to feel them and compare with a regular card though.
Always keep regular copies with you, and talk to your head judge before an event.
And note that proxies are not legal for tournament use, you need the original card (even if altered such as painted over).
February 13, 2015 7:43 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #7
Is that picture merely a paint alteration, or were they the same land that was then stripped? Basically asking the method of alteration.
That said, its hard to judge cards over the internet, the main thing is to be careful as not every head judge will permit them.
February 13, 2015 7:54 p.m.
I covered the art and parts I wanted to keep and then took off the ink off the rest of the card, so it's original art and all remaining ink
February 13, 2015 7:57 p.m.
I posted a thread in "custom cards" forums with more pics and they are all real just took off some ink
February 13, 2015 8:03 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #10
To be legal you need to leave the edges, all tournament legal cards must have black or white edges. I got burned on an altered Lili due to the edges being painted over with purples and browns.
February 13, 2015 9:02 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #13
If the card can't be verified as a legal card, it doesn't matter if it is in sleeves.
February 13, 2015 9:09 p.m.
These are real! They will pass every test out there, bend, water, blue line, they are the real thing I've not added anything I've just removed some ink
February 13, 2015 9:14 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #15
You've said that already. I was commenting about the card mentioned with painting on the borders.
Also a similar argument "These are real! They will pass every test out there, bend, water, blue line, they are the real thing I've not added anything I've just removed some ink" can be used to cards whose art is merely extended with paint. That doesn't make them de facto allowed. Always talk to your Head Judge to see if they will be permitted, and have spares on hand if he says no.
Without physically handling them I can't really say if there is a reason to not allow these, removing paint seems ok to me but there's always chances of thickness change or a subtle difference that requires a physical check.
February 13, 2015 9:17 p.m.
the cards are legal provided you don't cover the name of the card or any relevant text on the card such as the land type in the middle under the picture
February 13, 2015 10:57 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #18
Altered cards are still subject to the head judge's decision. And there is more to judge than just what is covered. Things like adding too much paint can increase the thickness of a card and make it a marked card. Removing paint may do something similar, but again it would have to be handled in person to determine.
February 13, 2015 11:02 p.m.
See I can understand paint making it thicker or bleeding over the edge but the ink on them is so thin that taking it off don't change the thickness or bleed into the edges
February 13, 2015 11:11 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #20
I'm not saying yours are marked, I'm just pointing out that there are a variety of factors that can affect the cards. As I've said, being in person to judge them would be the best option, to see if they will be acceptable. Otherwise, just be prepared for them to not be accepted, so there's no shitty surprise at an event.
February 13, 2015 11:15 p.m.
filledelanuit says... #21
In my experience Judges tend to care very little about altered basic lands. As long as they don't look like another card and don't have a different feel then you should be fine. However, the actual ruling is up to the head judge of a tournament. Different judges have different opinions on how to handle these so make sure you have some basics in case you need to switch them out.
Basically no one is worried about you counterfeiting basic lands. The only real concern here is that the cards are identical from the back. I would recommend double sleeving them to keep them as homogeneous as possible.
February 13, 2015 11:51 p.m.
Oh I do double sleeve my decks when taking them out in public cause I've seen too many cups get spilled
February 13, 2015 11:55 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #23
Leave the border on next time and no judge will turn them away
February 14, 2015 1:43 a.m.
GoblinsInc says... #24
Some still might. Always best to assume it will be a no, and be prepared, than assume it will be allowed and not have spares.
February 14, 2015 1:46 a.m.
DarkMagician says... #25
Removing the paint makes no noticeable difference in how the card feels so there's no way to consider the card as marked. I'd bet my deck no judge with half a clue will object to such alterations
February 14, 2015 2:03 a.m.
GoblinsInc says... #26
As I've said many times already, can't really comment on how it feels without feeling one. Just being the voice of caution to avoid someone having to drop from an event if they are told no.
February 14, 2015 2:07 a.m.
I'm not arguing your logic GoblinsInc and I wish you could feel them just so you could see how good they look and feel
February 14, 2015 2:18 a.m.
He is saying that if the card feels different its like marking cards in poker. You have a better idea of what you are going to draw when, hence if it feels different its against the rules and should not be allowed.
February 14, 2015 3:20 a.m.
GoblinsInc says... #29
I think he gets it. I was so tired I beat a dead Sarah Jessica Parker
February 14, 2015 3:22 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #30
Here's the bottom line: None of us can tell you with absolute certainty whether your alters are legal for use in a tournament because altered-art card legalities are dependent on the ruling of the head judge. We may be able to tell you if your cards are likely to be legal, but that's all.
Most head judges only care if an alteration obscures important information, provides important information, marks the card (by changing weight, thickness, etc.), or turns one card into another card (or turns a non-card into a card). Note that proxies and altered art cards are different; stripping the ink off of a card and using it as the foil backing for a different print is creating a proxy, not an alter. Proxies are never legal unless issued by the head judge for a card damaged during the event or unless otherwise stated at the beginning of the event.
Judges generally do not care whether your card still has black or white borders (borderless alterations are one of the most common and popular ones). Judges sometimes do not care about full art textless alterations as long as it's obvious what the card is and what it does (for example, basic lands are popular for full art alterations because it should always be obvious what they are and what they do).
However, you are not guaranteed the opportunity to use your altered art cards. You may be given the opportunity if the judge green lights them, but you should always bring regular copies of those cards just in case.
February 14, 2015 11:27 a.m.
filledelanuit says... #31
@ Epochalyptik It is worth noting that you can strip foils to make proxy tokens as a token is just about anything you want. Tokens aren't proxies or even real cards so they fall in a separate category.
February 14, 2015 1:40 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #32
You are not allowed to use sleeves or card backs that are similar to any a player is using. So caution is still advised when using stripped cards as tokens.
And note that these would not be proxy tokens. Proxy has a specific use for tournaments, and making custom tokens doesn't make them proxies.
February 14, 2015 2:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #33
Tokens aren't anything. They're just markers. You can't proxy a token.
February 14, 2015 2:25 p.m.
filledelanuit says... #34
@GoblinsInc You have broken no games rules by having a token sleeved in the same sleeves as your normal sleeves. The reason it is reccomended not to use the same sleeves is because you could accidentally shuffle it into your deck which would be annoying to fix. Note there are no penalties for having a token accidentally shuffled into your deck because it isn't actually a card. It would be like having a Pokemon card shuffled into your deck.
Fizzz says... #1
Please say we can use them :)
lol
February 13, 2015 3:19 p.m.