Annihilator Vrs. Lust For War: Which happens first?
Asked by Aritheall 14 years ago
One of my creatures is lust for warred but I have 2 Eldrazi attacking for a total of Annihilator 5 and my opponent only has two things left, one land and the lust for war...also, I only have 2 life left. What happens first?
Does the Annihilator trigger when I declare my Eldrazi as attacking, forcing the sacrifice of the Lust For War or does the Lust For War effect happen when I am forced to attack with that creature and I die?
From Lust for War's gatherer rules text:
6/15/2010: Lust for War's triggered ability triggers when the enchanted creature becomes tapped for any reason, not just when it attacks.
Tapping the creature activates the LfW, thus you tap to attack, so the tap trigger goes before the attack trigger.
At least, I am pretty sure that is how it works.
March 6, 2011 7:26 p.m.
Crud. Ah well, thanks for the info. Looks like we will be moving onto Round Three!!!
March 6, 2011 7:33 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #4
Well the annihilator ability forces the defending player to sacrifice X permanents when the attack is declared...
Anything your opponent controls would be sacrificed then, so in this case the enchantment and the land.
Then the creatures are tapped, and blocking is assigned and then damage is assigned etc.
It would seem that you would be saved just by the hair of your chin here.
March 6, 2011 7:33 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #5
Really? The annihilator would clear it off before the tap?
March 6, 2011 7:35 p.m.
Huh, must have posted just before theemptyquiver, as I didn't see his post. Do you have any specific rule quotes to back your answer up? I'd like it to be true but it seems the "Your Dead" side has hard evidence...
March 6, 2011 7:36 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #7
I always thought 508.2, 508.1f and 508.1 would be reversed..
live and learn.
March 6, 2011 7:37 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #8
I'm sure he is right. I just always thought declaring an attack triggered the abilities as that was declared.
It makes sense how it was explained, it is just slightly anti-intuitive to my brain.
March 6, 2011 7:39 p.m.
slightly anti-intuitive to my brain
As is the way with some of the rules of Magic.
March 6, 2011 7:44 p.m.
Yeah, Same here. I thought I would declare attackers, trigger abilities, and then tap creatures...Ah well...
March 6, 2011 7:45 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #11
Very true. That's what I get for trying to chime in on this gameshow while I am trying to get serious work done! haha
Even when I lose, I win!
March 6, 2011 7:46 p.m.
thaimaishuu says... #12
So, attacking still causes both triggers for Lust for War and annihilator. Right?
I see the solution simply as both triggers go on the stack in APNAP order. Annihilator would go on the stack first, because it is from the active player. Lust for War would be put on last and resolve first. This would support mafteechr first post, which states that Aritheall would lose.
March 6, 2011 9:43 p.m.
thaimaishuu is correct in his logic. After further research, this rule comes to mind.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
Since no player receives priority between tapping creatures for attack and declaring attackers, they would be placed on the stack in APNAP order. Well done thaimaishuu!
March 6, 2011 11:21 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #14
That actually makes it make FAR more sense to my brain!
March 6, 2011 11:42 p.m.
AegairEtapa says... #15
But you'd still lose. As the lose life ability is put on the stack, thus killing Lust for War then wouldn't prevent it's ability.
mafteechr says... Accepted answer #1
You lose.
You tap your creatures prior to triggered abilities going on the stack.
508.1. First, the active player declares attackers. This turn-based action doesnt use the stack. To declare attackers, the active player follows the steps below, in order.
508.1f The active player taps the chosen creatures. Tapping a creature when its declared as an attacker isnt a cost; attacking simply causes creatures to become tapped.
508.2. Second, any abilities that triggered on attackers being declared go on the stack.
702.83a Annihilator is a triggered ability. Annihilator N means Whenever this creature attacks, defending player sacrifices N permanents.
March 6, 2011 7:25 p.m.