We should create a point-buy system for card creations :)
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Oct. 8, 2022, 12:17 p.m. by TypicalTimmy
As a lifelong lover of D&D, the point-buy system is something I absolutely love to play around with. It allows for insanely powerful builds, as long as you are willing to balance them with serious drawbacks. Moreso, at least in my preferred campaign setting of Pathfinder, you have a racial / feat point-buy system where you can create brand new races and classes, adhering to the same aspects of the game.
The way a point-buy system works is you begin with a pool of points, suppose 21, and from here you can buy features for your content. As an example, when you point-buy for your ability scores (rather than rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest, as one method) you actually buy points.
Each of your six abilities begins at 10. So,
- Strength 10
- Dexterity 10
- Constitution 10
- Intelligence 10
- Wisdom 10
- Charisma 10
If you want to bump your stats up, you have to pay from your 21 points. Some systems and groups use only 16 points, I've seen 18, 21, 24, 25, 27 and even as high as 32. All depends on what your DM wants to run.
- A 32 point-buy campaign is generally reserved for campaigns where you begin at +14th level and are expected to be fighting literal Gods
Anywho, suppose you want the following stats for a Warlock Barbarian build. So, Strength, Constitution and Charisma are the most important three.
- Strength 15 requires 7 to buy
- Dexterity 10
- Constitution 16 requires 10 to buy
- Intelligence 10
- Wisdom 10
- Charisma 16 requires 10 to buy
This means you must spend 27 of your 21 points. So you need to make up the difference. You can do this by actually lowering your dexterity, wisdom and intelligence below 10.
- Strength 15
- Dexterity 8 adds +2
- Constitution 16
- Intelligence 9 adds +1
- Wisdom 7 adds +4
- Charisma 16
This gives you the 21 points to have a starting 1st level character at
- Strength 15
- Dexterity 08
- Constitution 16
- Intelligence 09
- Wisdom 07
- Charisma 16
So what the heck does this have to do with MTG custom cards??
What if we had a point-buy system for card creations? Does this exist? If so, anyone know of a reliable version?
If not, would anyone be interested in making one?
Stardragon says... #3
Rough idea all base line
Starting card
Points let's say 20 for even amount
Name-free Mana cost- tough but we need a base line but since 90% of the time cheaper is better even if you can cheat it in... 5 or 6 CMC is starting.
Colors-mono color is base and free unless it's artifacts?
Rarity- uncommon base free cam reduce for extra points
Non legendary-free
Vanilla free
P/T- same as mana but the opposite while small numbers have there place bigger numbers are usually better so let's say 2/3 is base free you can reduce it to give more points
Typing is hard but mono typing should be base so creature, artifact, land,enchantment, instant or scorcery, not things like enchantment creatures or artifact land ect.
Class I also hard if we do it at all for cteatures
October 8, 2022 1:22 p.m.
Stardragon says... #4
Now that we have a base line and point pool let's figure out what things are worth how many points
For Keywords and mechanics (at least established ones) we could make tiers based on how powerful they are
Example: Tier 1 is 5 points say Storm or Hexproof
Tier 2 is 4 points
Tier 3 is 3 points and so on and so forth
Adding Legendary is 2 points though being legendary can also be a detrimental is debate on this one
Planeswalkers are 7 points by themselves as they can absolutely break games (points can be adjusted this all rough ideas). Only Planeswalkers getting legendary tacked for free since every walker is now legendary regardless if the OG print says it or not
Extra colors are 1 point for the first and 2 points for each addition color (again there's pros and cons to multicolor harder to Cast but can more effects that don't break color pie)
Decreasing/Increasing mana cost I really don't know Increasing usually mean Increasing bomb power but makes harder to cast decreasing usually means a weaker card but easier cast
Some with P/T lower P/T can usually mean (at higher rarity at least) more powerful effect can be tacked on since it's a small body and bigger bodies have less powerful abilities (at least at lower rarity). So how the points worknsfor these will be key.
This again just rough spitball feel free take this idea and refine it I'm too stupid myself to do so
October 8, 2022 1:34 p.m. Edited.
Stardragon says... #5
I forgot about equipment or auras but in general I see them more as determants than boons at least compared to normal artifacts or enchantments but particularly auras plus any other special stuff like Arcane, trap, shrine curse ect most of those just make the card worse or is parasitic now some of can be ultra powerful decks that's why I'm tossed on these and how to integrate them to the point system same as creature race and class
October 8, 2022 1:46 p.m.
TheOfficialCreator says... #6
This essentially boils down to basic card creation theory, though I love your way of tying it to D&D.
Mana cost has always been proportional to P/T and abilities. Rarities, colors, pips, and age of printing does factor in somewhat, but these could all be set as general guidelines for a point system.
October 8, 2022 1:50 p.m.
Stardragon says... #7
Theses are my thoughts feel free to disagree and say where you think they should be. Note I placed in tiers I think they should be either because of thier history or thier POTENTIAL some keywords and mechanics are good but were printed on bad cards (example Cypher is actually a good mechanic but was only printed on less than stellar cards)
Tier 1 (broken absolutely game braking or has the potential to do so) Hexproof, Proliferate, Infect, Storm, Dredge, Delve, Affinity, Annihilator, Gravestorm, Poisonous
1.5 (unknown if it should be Tier 1 or 2)- Unblockable, Ninjutsu, Myraid,
2 (Powerful can be broken but is not inherently so)-Double Strike, Flying, Horsemanship, Flashback, Ward, Indestructible, Transmute, Absorb, Cascade, Rebound, Overload, Prowess, Dash,
2.5 (unknown if it should Tier 2 or 3)- Shroud, Wither, Shadow, Flash, Haste, Fear, Madness, Modular, Convoke, Ripple, Unearth, Living Weapon, Miracle, Cypher, Emerge,
3 (Solid abilities neither weak nor overly strong)- Deathtouch, First Strike, Protection, Vigilance, Cycling, Kicker, Entwine, Changeling, Hideaway, Evoke, Channel, Persist, Undying, Devour, Totem Armor, Evolve, Extort, Bestow, Dethrone, Menace, Exploit, Awaken, Skulk, Surge,
3.5 (unknown if it should in 3 or 4)- Intimidate, Landwalk, Buyback, Morph/Megamorph/Manifest, Soulshift, Graft, Split-Second, Frenzy, Transfigure, Champion, Prowl, Retrace, Conspire, Exalted, Level Up, Battlecry, Soulbound, Scavenge, Unleash, Tribute, Devoid, Ingest
4 (Weak or underwhelming and sometimes be determental to the card)- Reach, Lifelink, Provoke, Sunburst, Bloodthrist, Huant, Replicate, Reinforce, Day/Nightbound, Hellbent, Fuse, Outlast,
4.5 (unknown if it should be in 4 or 5)- Defender, Suspend, Amplify, Bushido, Forecast, Recover, Renown,
- (Worthless or bad ability or one actively hurts the card)- Banding, Rampage, Echo, Upkeep, Cumulative Upkeep, Fading, Offering, Epic
??? Tier (unsure what Tier it belongs to)- Phasing, for most of it life it was a Tier 5 ability but lately WotC has been making good phasing cards they are few and far but they show that the ability itself isn't bad when utilized correctly.
Splice, while infamous for the splice into arcane from OG Kami and be parasitic beacuse on it Wizards since made two card that basically say splice into instant or scorceries Splicer's Skill and Everdream as now that Splice is free from its arcane shackles could used in future to splice into other thing maybe splice into creatures or enchantments or hell maybe lands and when you splice a card it stays in your hand to cast later it doesn't go to your graveyard.
Hidden agenda- as a conspiracy only keyword I have no idea where or of it should be included
October 8, 2022 4:50 p.m. Edited.
Daveslab2022 says... #8
I think the point system would be a good idea when designing cards with other people, like, you and your buddies want to make some custom commanders to play against each other. Then sure, this ensures everybody has an even playing field that they agree on.
But for just having fun? Like the custom cards thread? All a point system does is muddy the waters and inhibit design.
I think legendofa said it the best so far. What’s the point difference between the cards he mentioned? How would custom abilities that aren’t keywords be defined by points? Sure, you can compare trample and lifelink, but you can’t really compare Monastery Mentor’s ability with say, Scavenging Ooze. They are entirely different cards that fit a niche or meta when being designed. Most of the abilities are either designed to counter something in the set/current meta, or to fit with other pieces of the set/meta.
legendofa says... #2
This sounds like it would need a lot of guesswork for original abilities. It would probably work well for setting mana costs and/or stats for French vanilla creatures, or something like Landfall--gain 1 life, but I'm not sure how much further you can take this.
As one example, what would the point difference between Serra Angel and Baneslayer Angel be? Either of those and Akroma, Angel of Wrath? And then add in something unique like Giada, Font of Hope...
When designing Horde decks, I assume something like double strike and deathtouch are roughly equal to +1/+1, first strike and flying are roughly +0.5/+0.5, and so on. (I don't have my notes in front of me at the moment.) That seems to work well for a balanced creature token base for these specialized decks, but I haven't tried anything more advanced.
Most of the balancing can be done in creature stats and mana costs. The rest is more art than science, and even the people paid to do it sometimes get it wrong.
October 8, 2022 1:17 p.m.