First strike and normal combat.
Asked by -Orvos- 2 years ago
Im fairly certain the answer is yes but I just want confirmation.
Say I have Kaldra Compleat out equipped to its germ and I attack with two creatures. Both get blocked.
First strike damage happens, triggering kaldra compleat. In response I Magnetic Theft kaldra compleat onto my other creature. My germ dies, the trigger resolves and their creature exiles.
Now normal combat happens and their other creature gets exiled by kaldra compleat.
Is this correct?
Raging_Squiggle says... #2
Your second creature will deal combat damage in the second combat damage step as normal:
702.7c Giving first strike to a creature without it after combat damage has already been dealt in the first combat damage step won’t preclude that creature from assigning combat damage in the second combat damage step. Removing first strike from a creature after it has already dealt combat damage in the first combat damage step won’t allow it to also assign combat damage in the second combat damage step (unless the creature has double strike).
August 31, 2021 6:22 p.m.
The accepted answer here is wrong.
The relevant rules here are , , and .
Notably Rule 117.1a tells us when we can play an instant, 117.3a tells us when we get priority relative to any turn based actions, rule 510 more specifically gives us the turn based actions of the combat damage step. Rule 603 refers to triggered abilities.
Firstly, according to 117.1a, you can only play instants when you have priority. 117.3a tells us typically we get priority after turn-based actions are resolved. 510 tells us the turn based actions of the combat damage step, which are first, damage being assigned, and second, damage being dealt, and says that after these things happen, priority is given.
Even after first strike's damage assignment step occurs, there are still turn-based actions that haven't yet resolved in the turn, which is the second damage step that occurs; priority isn't given until after the second damage step occurs. This means that you can't play magnetic theft (an instant) during the combat damage step until after all damage is dealt in that step. So by the time you can play magnetic theft, all creatures will have already dealt damage and it will be too late to move the equipment over for this damage step.
Moreover, with rule 603 we get more information about how triggered abilities resolve. 603.2 states: "Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point." 603.3 states: "Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority."
This means that when Kaldra Compleat deals combat damage, the triggered ability, the damaged creature getting exiled, doesn't resolve right then, instead, the next time a player is given priority it is put onto the stack. The creature wouldn't get exiled until this resolves, it will resolve after priority is given, which is after combat damage is dealt. If the creature dies due to combat damage, it is in the graveyard and becomes an invalid target for the ability, meaning the creature won't get exiled and will remain in the graveyard. The creature also won't get exiled before it deals damage back to the creature that had kaldra compleat on it, even if the first creature didn't have first strike on it.
December 19, 2023 7:55 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #4
Neotrup is indeed correct, tho. I recommend looking into rules 510 onward.
You will find that there is plenty of priority to be had after first strike combat damage is dealt (510.3.) but before the regular damage step occurs.
Because of the way (510.4.) is worded, if a creature didn't assign first strike damage in the first strike damage step, it still gets to deal damage in the next (regular) damage step
"[...] After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. [...]"
December 20, 2023 5:51 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
Accepted answer is correct and you are reading the rules wrong. Priority is given in each of the the combat damage steps. It doesn't matter that there are turn-based actions left in the turn or even the phase if we are in a phase that is broken into steps. Just like players receive priority in the upkeep despite there being a turn-based action in the draw step or receiving priority in the beginning of combat step despite there being turn-based actions in the declare attackers, declare blockers, and combat damage steps; players receive priority in the combat damage step even if there is a second combat damage step because of first strike/double strike. 510.4 specifies that the second combat damage step occurs after the first combat damage step is complete and 510.3 says that part of the combat damage step is players receiving priority.
117.3a The active player receives priority at the beginning of most steps and phases, after any turn-based actions (such as drawing a card during the draw step; see rule 703) have been dealt with and abilities that trigger at the beginning of that phase or step have been put on the stack. No player receives priority during the untap step. Players usually don’t get priority during the cleanup step (see rule 514.3).
510.3. Third, the active player gets priority. (See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.”)
510.4. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.
December 20, 2023 6:08 a.m.
Ah I see, with first strike it's like 2 combat damage steps happen. Thank you guys for clarifying the rules for me.
December 20, 2023 11:58 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Sure, no problem. Just to be exceedingly clear it isn't "like" there are two combat damage steps. There is literally a second combat damage step created. That is what 510.4 does. It creates a second combat damage step.
Neotrup says... Accepted answer #1
Yes. During the First Strike damage step creatures with First Strike or Double Strike deal damage. During the normal combat damage step creatures with Double Strike and creatures that have not yet dealt combat damage (regardless of whether they have First Strike or Double Strike) deal damage.
August 31, 2021 6:15 p.m.