Salty?
Social forum
Posted on June 14, 2021, 3:38 p.m. by RNR_Gaming
So, with paper magic slowly returning we're getting more face to face interaction and with that comes in person salt.
I'm not on twitter but my girlfriend showed me a tweet that was blowing up and it was basically along the lines of this:
It was 11pm and the last round of the pre-release and the OP's (original posters) opponent asked him to draw with him and split prizes and proceeded to tell him he had an hour drive home - to which OP responded something along the lines of "you made bad life decisions" so it really is not his problem.
Though it was not a tactful response (I don't think the tone translates well in text) I tend to agree with his action of declining the split - I may split or ID with a friend if it benefits me and our local community but some random from out of town random is not owed anything especially if they try and guilt trip me; if I paid to play 3 rounds of magic I'm playing 3 rounds of magic.
What are your thoughts? If we remove the "you made bad life decisions" part would you be more inclined to side with the OP? Is it a jerk move regardless? Are both of them in the wrong? Do you feel this is in the same vein as intentional draws that hose other players out of prize contention?
RNR_Gaming says... #3
1empyrean - honestly, I feel it was one of those sarcastic knee jerk replies to someone acting entitled. If the opponent just respected the OPs "no" I doubt he would of gotten that response - he received the same level of respect he gave to the OP imo.
June 14, 2021 4:36 p.m.
Yeah, you're probably right.
The level of saltiness of any situation is context dependent.
June 14, 2021 4:41 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #5
If you decide not to finish the event you're playing, that's your own responsibility. People have waited months, a year, to actually play in paper again, and if you leave early, you'll take a round of paper magic away from your opponent. I can understand why (s)he'd react irritated to a proposal like this, though I do agree that it wasn't handled well, the way you described it.
But I agree with the "sit down and play or concede and leave"-attitude, don't make your poor, well maybe not life decisions, but poor planning cost me both my playing experience and my possible prizes. I get it's a prerelease, the atmosphere is casual, and it's not ridiculous to make a request like this, but if your opponent won't split, you have to play to get your chance at a prize. If you know you can't play, then drop out, to minimize the amount of byes in the last round. Those are the rules, that's the modus operandum, that's how the organizer can maximize the amount of magic being played, which is why you showed up for the event and paid for it.
Tl;dr: it's okay to ask for splits, it's not okay to retort in an offending way, but there's a cost for not finishing your tournament, don't ask your opponent to pay it if you're the one who needs to leave.
June 14, 2021 4:45 p.m.
I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks says... #6
I would actually disagree with the OP somewhat. Imo it’s perfectly ok with asking for a split. I did after my opponent and I were playing for the 3-0 and 1-1 in the match so far. We still played out the match thou. I think you don’t have to agree to the split but I think the OP took it too far and was being an ass.
June 14, 2021 7:28 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #7
I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks - the issue wasn't that the ops opponent asked for the split. The issue was that he did not respect the OPs "no" and proceeded to try and guilt trip him into a draw; the opponent was being an ass too - I think it's getting overlooked due to the OPs reply which is more overtly rude.
June 14, 2021 8:20 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
There should be no expectation to split. That being said, I do sympathize with the out of towner since I went to a different shop for the MH2 PR and was surprised that they did a top heavy prizes 5 round swiss instead of 3 round swiss a pack per win as I am used to for PR. I ended up playing until midnight instead of being out of there by 10 like I expected. (Prize support as a whole was less than I expected TBH.)
June 14, 2021 8:28 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #9
Gidgetimer - they didnt advertise the prize/tournment structure on social media or their website? That just sounds so odd. Our prerelease at my lgs is standard starts at 1pm with 3 50 minute rounds. We're out of there by 5 but I guess theres an early bird Friday one that could go till midnight.
June 14, 2021 8:37 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #10
No, They just advertised the prerelease and price on social media. None of the 6 shops (3 here locally, 3 while traveling) I have been to have advertised prize structure for PR. Four of them have done 3 rounds, a pack per win. This place makes the second one that has ran it like a normal tournament with payout and rounds determined by participation.
I was there until midnight because it started at 6:30 PM. With deckbuilding and 5 50 minute rounds 5 1/2 hours wasn't too bad. I was just expecting 3 50 minute rounds.
June 14, 2021 8:53 p.m.
I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks says... #11
Gidgetimer, Thats a lot of magic lol. My shops does 2 packs for 2-1 4 for 2 wins and a tie and 6 packs for 3-0. The only problem with this is it is annoying because once you lose once it really feels like an uphill climb to get anything.
June 14, 2021 9:05 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #12
Would need to have seen it to get a full read. Depends on how the situation was presented once he mentioned being out of town. As an adult with kids in the magic community, I'm in inclined to be sympathetic to wanting to split, especially for something as casual as a prerelease. That being said, for all I know he went about saying it poorly, so who knows
June 14, 2021 9:17 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #13
"Poor life decisions" may be a bit harsh, but it's more-or-less true. "Poor time management" may be strictly more accurate, but even that is still a common element in many "poor life decisions"..
June 15, 2021 12:49 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #14
Of course, I myself enjoy "salt mining" every once in a while...
June 15, 2021 12:51 a.m.
Hardhitta7 says... #15
Yeah asking for a split is fine but if your opponent says no, you should just concede or play it out, not try a guilt trip. I do think OP was being a bit of an ass though, in his post he also said something like “and I continued to win” which made it seem like he was bragging about the whole situation which brought a lot more hate.
Also I can totally understand driving an hour or longer to your LGS and wanting to go home at a certain time, but the opponent should have taken into consideration that prereleases (any event really) can go pretty long, especially when it’s the first one since Covid.
My lgs is over an hour away and I just don’t go to events if I have to be up early the next morning.
June 15, 2021 9:26 a.m.
It is impossible to say if the person asking for the split is in the wrong. For starters, who hasn't gone to a prerelease that ran a lot longer than intended? Perhaps some players were playing a particularly slow match so, when it went to turns, their "five turns remaining" took forever. Or maybe the LGS did not have its act together and took forever to create the new postings after each round ended. Or their local policy gave additional time for rounds or construction during prerelease. Or maybe the person just completely forgot how long in-person prereleases take given how they have not happened for the past year.
When asking for a split, you can state your reasons without it being a "guilt trip"--remember, you are likely disappointing the other player, so you kind of owe them at least a reason why you want to leave early. The key there is being careful with your tone--you want to explain the situation, not seem like you are trying to manipulate them.
How the OP responded is utterly unacceptable. There are plenty of polite ways to decline a split:
"Hey, I am really sorry, but I have not been able to play paper Magic for a while, and I really want to get this last round in."
"Sorry, but I am here with friends and they are going to stay the whole round, so, if we split, I am going to have to sit here doing nothing for an hour."
Being a jerk about it is utterly uncalled for.
Regarding the situation described above, we cannot be 100% sure if the person asking for the split approached the matter in a problematic way... but I am having a hard time giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who used clearly problematic language, and then thought they were super cool and went to go brag about being an ass on social media.
June 15, 2021 11:22 a.m.
I wouldn't consider the fact that in store play is "coming back" as an excuse for the OP being a jerk. If the twitter OP had simply declined, I wouldn't think anyone was "at fault," or in the right. The comment he made toward the other player was demeaning and extremely disrespectful. The OP used his own interpretation that the other person was somehow trying to con him or win him over with sympathy (in addition to him eventually winning the game) to excuse his poor sportsmanship and immaturity.
Regardless of the situation, the OP chose to put the outcome of a game or the perceived chance at getting more prizes over treating someone with respect. I don't think we should be asking if it's ok to ask to split prizes (I'd tend to agree that I prefer to play out games, and "technically" shouldn't be allowed in official recorded tournament matches.) I think we be asking why this kind of toxic behavior is allowed and expected both on and off line.
It reminds me a lot of the recent Hearthstone "Grandmaster" xBlyzes disconnecting in the finals instead of playing out the game. A lot of articles highlight the "ragequit" but don't highlight the fact that the MC's just keep on talking like that sort of thing is acceptable. And considering this is supposed to be the top player, it's a poor reflection on any sort of gaming, and is an unfortunate highlight on the cyclical thinking that leads people like the twitter OP to think that not only were their actions acceptable, but that other's would side with him. Online it's easy to get away with this sort of toxic behavior, as there's little to no consequences of "roping" or disconnecting (I've been there as well). But when we start to treat others as opponents rather than other people, all we're doing is hurting ourselves and stunting an opportunity (no matter how small) for maturation and social growth.
As a salty player myself, it took me separating my own enjoyment and personal worth from the outcome of any game (Magic or otherwise) and to focus more on learning and the actual, you know, fun game that MTG is! Placing your personal worth on the outcome of a game notorious for random bricking and bad beats leaves you with an inconsistent result. And when you're feeling low on yourself, it seems to make more sense why the OP felt the need to be "in the right" and demean the other player.
June 15, 2021 12:52 p.m.
Hardhitta7 says... #18
Some people are gonna be assholes regardless of the situation too. That happens in all games, and in life in general.
I believe OP was just trying to farm Twitter clout.
June 15, 2021 1:47 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #19
Caerwyn - it's not the act of asking for the draw that's wrong; what is wrong is not respecting the "no". Also, I'm sure any of us seasoned players have been there but an extra pack or 2 usually is not worth losing sleep over and I'd just leave after they declined - my time is worth a bit more than 8 dollars an hour. None of us were there but I tend to agree that in situations like these tone is everything. The way it was described on the tweet he was indeed being a jerk but being persistent about trying to get a split is still a jerk move too.
June 15, 2021 2:54 p.m.
Your post does not make it seem like the person asking for the draw was disrespecting the “no” - from how you described it, they asked for the draw and proceeded into an explanation as to why, to which they received a rather discourteous no.
Naturally, if you get uppity about the no, that’s a problem as well. But there is no evidence in the record as reported here that might have been the case.
June 15, 2021 2:59 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #21
BrassLord - in store play is indeed not a reason to be a jerk. I was just making a statement on how things are; personally, I don't like things being that way it's just how they are. Admittedly, it was also a ploy to get more people to interact with the thread. I would need to read more into that situation to get a better grasp of it but no one is required to play games out you can leave at anytime - even during a draft you can get up and leave cause you got a pack with massive value though it'd be up to the T/O and owner if you'd be allowed to participate in future events; also, not advocating anyone actually do this as it's a jerk move but know it's an option. Oh and definitely agree with your closing statement.
June 15, 2021 3:02 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #22
Caerwyn - I wasnt sure if we were allowed to link tweets. I guess I should of at least copy and pasted the whole thing for better context; posted while I was at work from memory. I suppose I could try and find it - i just thought it was interesting how polarizing the tweet was.
June 15, 2021 3:04 p.m.
Without seeing the full post it's hard to comment, however I have learnt a few things over the years around all these kinds of stories, the key one being that it's really easy to embleish a story to make yourself look like the hero.
The truth is that most of the time neither party handled it well and that what was a mole hill has been turned into a mountain just so that OP can talk themselves up.
I'd say that the more realistic scenario went along the lines of:
"Hey, can we split the prizes for round three"
"I don't want to"
"Ohh, it's just that I have an hour drive home after this"
"I'd rather play" - at this point OP thinks of some sort of cutting remark that they don't actually say but gets added to the story in the classic "Kiss my asphalt" way.
The truth is that this whole interaction would have been mundae enough that a tweet really wasn't necessary. I mean it's not like the two got into a punch-on or anything.
1empyrean says... #2
There's no expectation that the opponent should offer/accept a split and I rarely stay to the beginning of a round I'm not going to play. I leave prereleases early sometimes.
In this context, saying that they make bad life decisions is uncalled for, though. There's no reason to say it. Just decline the split and don't be a jerk.
June 14, 2021 3:57 p.m.