What would Tishana, Voice of Thunder's p/t be after God-Pharaoh's Gift?
Asked by MindEcho 6 years ago
What would Tishana, Voice of Thunder's p/t be after God-Pharaoh's Gift?
God-Pharoah's Gift is actually applied in layer 1, as it's a copy ability (with the haste granting being in layer 6), not layer 7b. However, part of how copy effects of that nature work is they actually remove applicable CDAs, so Tishana, Voice of Thunder doesn't have it's ability to be applied in 7a, and it remains a 4/4. The answer is the same, though the reasoning was a bit off.
January 23, 2018 1:08 p.m.
Neotrup, No.
God-Pharoah's Gift has an ability that is a copy ability, an ability that grants Haste, AND an ability that sets P/T. Each part of the effect applies in it's respective layer or sub-layer, as per this rule:
- 613.5. If an effect should be applied in different layers and/or sublayers, the parts of the effect each apply in their appropriate ones. If an effect starts to apply in one layer and/or sublayer, it will continue to be applied to the same set of objects in each other applicable layer and/or sublayer, even if the ability generating the effect is removed during this process
The copy effect applies in layer 1.
The haste granting effect applies in layer 6.
The characteristic-defining ability granted by the copy effect applies in layer 7a.
- 604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an objects colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met
And finally the effect that sets the copy's P/T is applied in layer 7b.
January 23, 2018 3:37 p.m.
Actually, nope, nevermind. I looked back at GPG's phrasing and realized I was wrong.
Here's the applicable rule:
706.9d When applying a copy effect that doesnt copy a certain characteristic, retains an original value for a certain characteristic, or modifies the final value of a certain characteristic, any characteristic-defining ability (see rule 604.3) of the object being copied that defines that characteristic is not copied. If that characteristic is color, any color indicator (see rule 204) of that object is also not copied.
Example: Quicksilver Gargantuan is a creature that reads, You may have Quicksilver Gargantuan enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield, except its still 7/7. Quicksilver Gargantuan enters the battlefield as a copy of Tarmogoyf, which has a characteristic-defining ability that defines its power and toughness. Quicksilver Gargantuan does not have that ability. It will be 7/7.
Neotrup was right. The copy of Tishana will be a 4/4 as part of the new characteristic-defining ability of the "was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token" part of rule 604.3a.
#IWasWrongAllAlong
sonnet666 says... Accepted answer #1
4/4.
Tishana's first ability is a characteristic-defining ability, while God-Pharaoh's Gift creates a continuous effect modifying the copy Tishana's P/T.
In the layer system, characteristic-defining abilities are applied in layer 7a, and effects that set P/T to a specific value are applied just after, in layer 7b. The effect always wins out.
January 22, 2018 11:31 p.m.