What is the interaction between Remorseless Punishment and Platinum Emperion?

Asked by chosenone124 7 years ago

Suppose my opponent has a single card in hand and a Platinum Emperion I target them with Remorseless Punishment.

  1. Can they choose lose life twice so they don't have to do anything?
  2. After they sac the Emperion, do they lose 5 life?
  3. My opponent flashes in a Tajuru Preserver (lets say he had an Alchemist's Refuge out). Does Remorseless Punishment just whiff?

GearNoir says... #1

  1. Yes, if Platinum Emperion is on the field, they can choose to lose life twice and nothing will happen.

  2. Any moment your opponent can not fulfill the requirements listed on Remorseless Punishment to not lose life, they must lose 5 life, up to two times if applicable.

  3. They would not be allowed to sac a creature in this instance, so they would lose 5 life.

Gatherer for Tajuru Preserver:

  • If a spell or ability an opponent controls instructs you to perform an action unless you sacrifice a permanent (as Ogre Marauder does), you cant choose to sacrifice a permanent. You must perform the action. On the other hand, if a spell or ability an opponent controls instructs you to sacrifice a permanent unless you perform an action (as Rishadan Brigand does), you can choose whether or not to perform the action. If you dont perform the action, nothing happens, since you cant sacrifice any permanents.
November 13, 2016 12:23 a.m.

GearNoir says... #2

Further clarification on #2 - They would not retroactively lose life, they would only lose life from the time Platinum Emperion left the field onward.

November 13, 2016 12:25 a.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #3

To simplify the spell's effect a bit, let's remove the specifics.

X happens unless you do Y or Z.

  • If you cannot do Y, then X happens.

  • If you cannot do Z, then X happens.

  • If you can do Y or Z, X does not happen.

For your questions:

  1. Gatherer rule from Platinum Emperion:
    1/1/2011 Spells and abilities that would normally cause you to gain or lose life still resolve, but the life-gain or life-loss part simply has no effect. (Yes, they can choose to lose 5 life twice, albeit no life change actually occurs)

  2. Yes. Static abilities on a permanent immediately cease to function once it leaves the battlefield. If the opponent sac's the Platinum Emperion to the spell's first iteration, and they choose to lose 5 life on the second, they will indeed lose that 5 life.

  3. Refer to my "chart" above. If they cannot do either Y or Z, then X must happen. They can't discard 2 cards (because only 1 is in hand), and they cannot sac a creature (Because an ability specifically says they can't). So they must lose 5 life twice.

November 13, 2016 2:35 a.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... #4

For my third, they actually have no cards in hand, since their only card in hand was the Tajuru Preserver they just flashed in. A minor technicality, but can be relevant.

November 13, 2016 2:36 a.m.

This discussion has been closed