what is the interaction between persist and undying?
Asked by viccer 9 years ago
With Puppeteer Clique and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed do they make a loop or some wacky doomsday crap?
When the creature dies, if it has no counters at all on it, and has both Persist and Undying, you'd be able to stack their 'goes to graveyard' triggers in whichever order you wanted.
So you could stack persist and then undying, which would cause undying to apply, bringing it back with a +1/+1 counter, and then persist would fail to find it in the graveyard and do nothing.
There's no interaction between the two mechanics in any kind of looping way. When you bring it back with Undying, and then it dies, Persist will still see the lack of -1/-1 counters and bring it back, and vice versa.
July 16, 2014 12:21 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #3
It does not loop, however, it becomes extremely hard to kill. If it is on the table after Persisting, it will have a -1/-1 counter. If it dies, you can have Undying resolve, and it comes back with a +1/+1 counter (Persist fails either way; either because it had a -1/-1 counter or because it tried to resolve when the creature wasn't in the graveyard). The opposite case also works; it has a +1/+1 counter, it dies, Persist resolves (Undying fails) and the creature comes back with a -1/-1 counter again.
This is part of a loop. You need another tool to "complete" it, like Phyrexian Altar . Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Phyrexian Altar + Puppeteer Clique is infinite colored mana and recurring of creatures in opponents' graveyards.
July 16, 2014 1:41 p.m.
if you have a sac outlet like Viscera Seer you can make a loop.
angrychains says... #1
The first time clique dies it "persists" getting. -1-1 the second time it dies it can use mikaeuss undying to come back with a +1+1. And so on.
In this case the counters are irrelevent as they are never on the card at the same time
July 16, 2014 12:12 p.m.