What happens when Pramikon, Sky Rampart's ETB effect is doubled, say by a Panharmonicon? Are both left and right chosen at the same time, or something else?

Asked by Anteus3575 4 years ago

I was just thinking about this while I was brewing some Pramikon, Sky Rampart EDH decks, both a pillow fort deck, and a blink deck, thus the question.

Neotrup says... Accepted answer #1

Pramikon, Sky Rampart does not have an ETB, so it cannot be doubled by Panharmonicon . ETBs start with When or Whenever. If you do somehow choose both Left and Right, perhaps by controlling two Pramikon, Sky Rampart , players will not be able to attack unless they only have one opponent.

August 28, 2019 8:18 p.m.

dragonstryke58 says... #2

@Neotrup

According to Gatherer rulings for Pramikon, Sky Rampart , if two Pramikon, Sky Rampart 's disagree on which direction players can attack, players can't attack at all.

8/23/2019: If two Pramikons on the battlefield disagree on which direction players must attack, players can’t attack at all.

August 29, 2019 1:17 a.m.

Neotrup says... #3

dragonstryke58

I believe that is an oversight that was just assuming normal multiplayer play. Mystic Barrier has the same rules text (with the addition of the word "last" due to it's ability to change directions) and the following ruling:

10/17/2013 If two Mystic Barriers are on the battlefield with two different chosen directions, you may not attack a player or planeswalker unless that player or the controller of that planeswalker is the opponent seated nearest you in both directions. (This happens most often in two-player games.)

August 29, 2019 9:06 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #4

@dragonstryke58: That rulings note for Pramikon, Sky Rampart isn't written in the best way. It only holds when there are more than two players still in the game. It should have been written more like the rulings note Neotrup found for Mystic Barrier .

For additional reference, this question was also addressed in a recent Cranial Insertion article (3rd question from the top).

August 29, 2019 10:47 a.m.

dragonstryke58 says... #5

@Neotrup, Rhadamanthus

That's good to know. I hadn't thought of Mystic Barrier so when I looked at the ruling for Pramikon, Sky Rampart I thought it was accurate.

August 30, 2019 12:01 a.m.

Spatialdebris says... #6

I'm curious, does Mystic Barrier and Pramikon, Sky Rampart overlap and cause players not to be able to attack?

September 25, 2019 3:31 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #7

The interaction between a Mystic Barrier and Pramikon, Sky Rampart pointing in different directions is the same as the interaction between two Pramikons pointing in different directions explained above. If there are more than two players in the game then no one can attack. If there are only two players then they can attack with no problems.

September 25, 2019 3:35 p.m.

Caerwyn says... #8

Spatialdebris - correct. The language of the two is effectively the same, though Barrier has a qualifier because the direction can change during the upkeep. Having one of each fielded would have the same effect as having two copies of the same one fielded, a situation addressed in Gatherer rulings:

If two Mystic Barriers are on the battlefield with two different chosen directions, you may not attack a player or planeswalker unless that player or the controller of that planeswalker is the opponent seated nearest you in both directions. (This happens most often in two-player games.)

September 25, 2019 3:38 p.m.

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