What happens if i counter s spell that was copied.
Asked by Jorge_A830 8 years ago
My opponent had anEcho Mage and it was leveled up to 4.My opponent then cast Dreadbore then paid 2 blue mana to copy it twice, which allowed him to destroy 3 target creatures or planeswalkers. What I did in response was counter Dreadbore with Counterspell because I counterd Dreadbore do the copies of Dreadbore resolve?
nobu_the_bard says... Accepted answer #2
The stack looked like this after Echo Mage was activated.
You need to counter Dreadbore now, before the copies are on the stack. When Dreadbore is countered and removed from the stack, Echo Mage's ability fizzles for lack of target. Once Echo Mage's ability resolves and they are put onto the stack, you will know what they are targeting - you won't know before they are created, and by the time you know, it's too late to stop it all. If you allow Echo Mage's ability to resolve without Counterspelling Dreadbore, it will look like this
- bottom -> Dreadbore targeting something -> Dreadbore (copy) targeting something -> Dreadbore (copy) targeting something
Now it doesn't matter which Dreadbore you Counterspell, you'll only stop that one - the other two will continue to resolve.
March 3, 2016 4:39 p.m.
Jorge_A830 says... #3
Okay.Just to clarify I did cast Counterspell on Dreadbore before he declared what he was going to target, but it was after he paid 2 blue mana and tapped Echo Mage to make 2 copies
March 3, 2016 5:04 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #4
That can't be done as described. All targets must be chosen as the spell or ability goes on the stack. If your opponent had already activated the ability he must pick the target immediately, he can't wait to see if you respond before doing so.
March 3, 2016 5:10 p.m.
Jorge_A830 says... #5
So then in order for me to prevent my opponent from being able to make copies I must counter the original spell before allowing him to copy the spell he played?In this case counter Dreadbore with Counterspell before he can declare to make copies with Echomage?
March 3, 2016 6:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
That's still inaccurate.
When your opponent activates Echo Mage's ability he or she first declares the targets, then calculates and pays the ability's cost.
No player has priority during the casting or activation process. You can't interrupt the ability's activation to do something, and your opponent can't pay the cost before declaring a legal target.
Now, when your opponent casts Dreadbore, he or she has the opportunity to hold priority and activate Echo Mage's ability. Doing so means that the ability is directly on top of the spell on the stack.
At this point, you can cast Counterspell. Because Echo Mage's ability hasn't resolved yet, there's only one other spell on the stack: Dreadbore. You target Dreadbore with Counterspell.
When Counterspell resolves, Dreadbore will be countered. Then, Echo Mage's ability will attempt to resolve and will be countered because it doesn't have a legal target.
March 3, 2016 6:40 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
Note also that there are other possibilities. For example, if you allow Echo Mage's ability to resolve before responding, there are now two instances of Dreadbore on the stack. You can counter one, but the other will resolve.
Conversely, if your opponent passes priority to you after casting Dreadbore and without activating Echo Mage's ability, then you have two options. You can pass priority back, causing Dreadbore to resolve. You won't counter anything, but your opponent won't be able to activate Echo Mage's ability. Alternatively, you can cast Counterspell targeting Dreadbore. However, your opponent can then respond by activating Echo Mage's ability targeting either Counterspell (to copy your Counterspell and use the copy to counter your spell, thus allowing the Dreadbore to resolve normally) or Dreadbore (to make a copy, possibly target something else, and allow your Counterspell to counter the original).
Note that in the lattermost scenario, the copy of Dreadbore can be created because Echo Mage's ability will resolve before your Counterspell counters its target.
Note also that in cases where the spell is copied by a triggered ability (such as Mirari's), then it won't matter whether you counter the original because the triggered ability will use the spell's last known information to produce a copy regardless of whether the original still exists. This doesn't work for abilities with targets; if a spell or ability requires targets and has no legal targets when it would resolve, it's countered by the game rules.
Raging_Squiggle says... #1
Yes they do. Copies of spells in the stack are not dependent on if the original spell resolves or not. They will resolve all on their own if you counter the original Dreadbore.
Note that the copies of the spell can be countered as well.
March 3, 2016 4:37 p.m.