What exactly happens if I use Dulcet Sirens to force Raving Dead on another player?
Asked by dankentheeldergod 9 years ago
Lets say I have Dulcet Sirens in play and my opponent has Raving Dead in multiplayer game. I am pretty sure that after I am randomly chosen as opponent being attacked by Raving Dead at the beginning of combat, I can use Dulcet Sirens to turn Raving Dead on some other player.
Or not? I remember that some years ago I read some rules article which stated, that if two effects tell player to attack two targets(players) with one creature, he can choose which one to attack. But maybe I confuse it with situation, that says, that one creature must block two different creatures simultaneously(example: attacking with both Crashing Boars and Crested Craghorn). Or with something completely different : )
Unfortunately I cannot find that article anymore. But anyway, if that was true, I guess it would only apply for continuous effects like hypothetical(I could not find any real example, which means this whole situation probably all came from my twisted mind : D) enchantment saying:
"When this enters the battlefield choose player. Enchanted creature attacks chosen player each turn if able."
, enchanting one creature in two copies, each time choosing different player. But effect would be overwritten in case of Dulcet Sirens because of layers, topic that I studied only briefly.
Anyway, I hope I did not confused you too much. Back to title question: Can I evade Raving Dead or not? Thanks for your answers to this question, and all attempts to shed some light on topics I mentioned like "blocking two different creatures simultaneously with one creature", "layers concerning choosing how creature attacks/blocks", or "I am insane?". Your effort will be much appreciated.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
Nitpick: You can't break any restrictions. Restrictions are absolute, and you decide the legal declaration of attackers by determining which declaration would satisfy the most requirements without violating any restrictions.
508.1d The active player checks each creature he or she controls to see whether it's affected by any requirements (effects that say a creature must attack, or that it must attack if some condition is met). If the number of requirements that are being obeyed is fewer than the maximum possible number of requirements that could be obeyed without disobeying any restrictions, the declaration of attackers is illegal. If a creature can't attack unless a player pays a cost, that player is not required to pay that cost, even if attacking with that creature would increase the number of requirements being obeyed.
Now, you must activate Dulcet Sirens's ability before attackers are declared. Activating it after attackers are declared will do nothing because you can't change the declaration of attackers. You can respond to Raving Dead's ability because the ability is a triggered ability that happens in the beginning of combat. You'll get priority after it resolves (and therefore after the player is chosen at random), so you can respond once you know whether it's supposed to attack you or not.
As erabel said, though, Raving Dead can attack either you or the other opponent (the one you targeted with Dulcet Sirens's ability) because either permutation satisfies the maximum number of possible requirements (which is one of two total) without breaking any restrictions (there are no restrictions).
February 9, 2015 6:24 p.m.
dankentheeldergod says... #3
Thank you both gentlemen, I think I should mark as answer the one with more rules citation : )
erabel says... #1
Okay, so, when declaring attackers, all attacks need to follow as many requirements as possible (like having to attack every turn, or attack a specific player) while breaking the fewest restrictions (like only one creature can attack every turn, or can't attack unless you pay two mana).
If Raving Dead's ability tells it it has to attack player A, and Dulcet Sirens say it has to attack player B, attacking player A follows 1 requirement and breaks 1 requirement, and attacking player B follows 1 requirement and breaks 1 requirement. So, basically, the player with the Raving Dead can attack either of those players legally, but can't choose not to attack, nor can they choose to attack player C.
February 9, 2015 6:01 p.m.