unlimited copies for Mimic Vat

Asked by metalmustaine 6 years ago

what if I used Mimic Vat to copy Geralf's Messenger then i used it for sacrifice or opponent killed it, can i use it's undying ability so that it will not be exiled?

BlueScope says... Accepted answer #1

There's two points in time where your question might apply to:1. When you sacrifice the token, both its own Undying and the Vats ability are going to trigger. Here, you may choose to exile the token, but you don't have to.2. At the end of the turn, the token will be exiled by the delayed triggered ability of the vat.

Either way, when the token enters the graveyard, before you could bring it back from it's Undying ability, it ceases to exist because tokens can't be in graveyards.

April 6, 2015 5:24 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #2

@BlueScope: Mimic Vat's imprint ability will not trigger for tokens because it specifies "nontoken." Further, you couldn't exile the token to Mimic Vat's ability anyway because it will cease to exist before the ability would even be put onto the stack.

Tokens cannot exist for extended periods in non-battlefield zones. If a token changes zones, it remains in its new zone until the next time state-based actions are checked, at which point the token will cease to exist. The token may not change zones a second time, even if it would return to the battlefield.

The token does still die, so undying will trigger, but the token will cease to exist before the ability is put onto the stack, and the ability will do nothing on resolution because the source object is no longer in the graveyard.

April 6, 2015 7:58 p.m.

BlueScope says... #3

@ Epochalyptik: Ah, totally scrolled over the noncreature part :D

I'd be interested in the reason of Undying triggering, and Mimic Vat not (if it would affect token creatures)... in my understanding, it's two instances of "put into the graveyard from the battlefield". Does that mean that Fecundity wouldn't trigger on tokens either? (fastest example of any-creature-enters-the-battlefield that I can think of)

I hope it's okay to ask this in here? I'm not trying to hijack the post :)

April 7, 2015 2:50 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #4

Nothing says "noncreature." Mimic Vat says "nontoken." That's the reason tokens don't trigger its ability. Tokens are still creatures, and they trigger abilities that care about creatures as long as those abilities don't state otherwise.

April 7, 2015 2:59 a.m.

metalmustaine says... #5

I think Fecundity will still work. I'm not sure how though..... :P

April 7, 2015 3:02 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #6

And the reason Mimic Vat says nontoken at all is that its ability would fail on tokens for the state-based action described earlier. It makes it easier to just not let the ability trigger and clutter the stack.

April 7, 2015 3:04 a.m.

BlueScope says... #7

@ Epochalyptik: Yeah, the 'noncreature' was a typo, I meant to write 'nontoken creature'...

And as for the rest of my question, re-reading you original post, I realize I had misinterpreted what you wrote.
It would trigger if it were to trigger for token creatures (just like Fecundity does), but if it did, it wouldn't have any effect. That reflects my original interpretation of things (whether or not I made that clear :D ), just that I glanced over the non-token part...

April 7, 2015 7:24 a.m.

This discussion has been closed