undying and -1/-1 counters

Asked by swkelly89 9 years ago

i am wondering if a creature with undying (ie. Butcher Ghoul ) that has a +1/+1 counter on it, and then has a -1/-1 placed on it by say Black Sun's Zenith , if the counters are canceled out and undying will trigger or if the counters are treated as separate things

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1

They cancel out.

If a permanent has N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters on it, N counters of each type are removed from that permanent as a state-based action. Therefore, you can use a -1/-1 counter to cancel out a +1/+1 counter in order to get undying to trigger again.

August 8, 2014 7:37 p.m.

Kre says... #2

Counters annihilate each other the way Epochalyptik describes. It is worth noting, however, in the case of Black Sun's Zenith , if that creature is dying because of Black Sun's Zenith Undying will not trigger.

704.7 If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other state-based actions were performed, that permanents last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed.

Example: You control Young Wolf, a 1/1 creature with undying, and it has a +1/+1 counter on it. A spell puts three -1/-1 counters on Young Wolf. Before state-based actions are performed, Young Wolf has one +1/+1 counter and three -1/-1 counters on it. After state-based actions are performed, Young Wolf is in the graveyard. When it was last on the battlefield, it had a +1/+1 counter on it, so undying will not trigger.

August 8, 2014 8:08 p.m.

FancyTuesday says... #3

Oh, and when I say "counters annihilate each other" I only mean +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters. Derp.

August 8, 2014 9:01 p.m.

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