Timing of triggers during combat?

Asked by gheedorah 6 years ago

So I have read 603 but still can't figure out exactly how this works. Thanks ahead of time for any help.

My buddy and I were both low on life. During my combat, I swung with:

I think he may have also had out a Sanguine Bond, but I can't recall. I don't remember his life total or mine, though the trample damage plus the Dying Wish was enough that it would have killed him, and all the pings from Blood Artist and Soul Warden was enough to kill me...depending on timing.

My question is about timing all of this- I know that damage is dealt all at once (and I believe that goes for lifelink too, though he didn't have any lifelink creatures out). When did he gain/lose life from Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble triggering? When did I? What about Soul Warden, with my two Giant Adephage each creating a new one? We couldn't figure it out in any timely fashion, so I gave him the win, but can someone point me to a good primer on the timing of triggered abilities/lifelink/effects, during the combat damage step, or else just explain it here?

Tyrant-Thanatos says... Accepted answer #1

Triggered abilities are put on the stack just prior to a player gaining priority. Anything that triggers off of combat damage will not go on the stack, much less resolve, until after the damage has been dealt.

If you have enough combat damage going through to your opponent to be lethal, it will kill them before any triggered abilities hit the stack.

It is important however, to distinguish when a triggered ability triggers. There are some abilities that trigger when a creature "attacks and isn't blocked" or "is blocked" and those abilities will resolve before damage.

Edit: It's also worth noting that Lifelink is not a triggered ability, and the lifegain from it happens as a part of the damage itself.

July 26, 2017 8:30 p.m. Edited.

gheedorah says... #2

Thank you!

Any idea where I could read more about this? I'm curious about the order in which each of these creatures' triggered abilities go onto the stack, where Dying Wish fits in, and whether Soul Warden even still exists to gain life for the new Giant Adephage tokens, etc.

July 26, 2017 9:11 p.m.

gheedorah says... #3

Found APNAP!

Can I pass priority before I've put all my triggered abilities on the stack, if there's some advantageous reason to do so?

July 26, 2017 9:26 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #4

To your most recent question: no. You only get to choose what order to put the triggers onto the stack, not whether they go onto the stack at all.

The way I see it, here are the key things to know about triggered abilities in combat:

  • A triggered ability triggers whenever the given event happens, but waits to be put onto the stack until the next time a player would get priority
  • If multiple triggered abilities are trying to go onto the stack at the same time, then the active player puts the triggers they control onto the stack first in the order of their choice, then the non-active player does the same with the triggers they control
  • The game checks and processes state based actions (including creature death for lethal damage and player death for 0 or less life) right before each time a player would get priority
  • The active player gets priority at the beginning of each step of combat, but if that step has a turn-based action (declaring attackers, declaring blockers, dealing damage) then it's only after that action has been completed

In your example combat damage gets dealt and the abilities on the two Giant Adephages trigger. The game checks SBAs before moving on, and if your opponent is currently at 0 or less life then the game just ends and we don't need to worry about anything else.

If your opponent is still alive then the SBA check for lethal damage causes the Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble, two Soul Wardens, Scourge of Skola Vale, and probably whatever was blocking the Scourge to be destroyed. The dying creatures cause the Artist and Noble to trigger 6 times each, and Dying Wish also triggers.

Now it's finally time to put the triggers onto the stack. You put your Adephage and Dying Wish triggers onto the stack in the order of your choice, then your opponent puts their Artist and Noble triggers onto the stack in the order of their choice. This means the Artist and Noble triggers will resolve first. If this causes you to drop to 0 or less life at any point then the game will make you lose as it checks SBAs in-between the triggers resolving.

If you're still alive after the Artist and Noble triggers resolve then your Dying Wish and Adephage triggers will resolve next. Note that Soul Warden is gone from the battlefield, so won't trigger from the Adephage token copies entering the battlefield.

July 26, 2017 10:55 p.m.

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