target fights another target and power/toughness
Asked by piebandit 9 years ago
Example:
If I use a card like Roar of Challenge on a Savage Knuckleblade, targeting a Dawnbringer Charioteers, what is the power and toughness of the Knucklebalde afterwards (including the ferocious trigger)?
- 6/6?
- 6/4?
- 2/4?
I was playing someone in a similar situation last night and after killing their creature, they threw up no blocks and took 6 damage. I wanted to know what is correct here. I did some searching and the answer wasn't obvious.
Rhadamanthus says... #2
I assume you're asking about Savage Punch? If so, as the spell resolves Savage Knuckleblade will get +2/+2 and fight the Dawnbringer Charioteers. After the fight the Knuckleblade will be a 6/6 with 2 damage marked on it. The fight didn't "use up" any of its power, and marked damage doesn't reduce a creature's toughness. If the Knuckleblade attacks this turn it will assign and deal a total of 6 damage in combat, unless some other effect specifically changes its power (like its first ability, for example).
November 20, 2014 9:29 a.m.
Rhadamanthus Sorry, that is the card I meant was indeed Savage Punch.
Let me try to clarify my scenario.
My turn:
1st Main phase:
Savage Punch on Savage Knuckleblade, making him 6/6.Target Dawnbringer Charioteers with the Savage Punch. Here, if I understand correctly. Dawnbringer would get 6 damage counters, and Knuckleblade would get two. Dawnbringer Charioteers dies.
Combat phase:
I swing with Savage Knuckleblade
I want to understand the following options in this case:
my opponent declared no blocks - they would receive 6 damage?
my opponent blocks with another Savage Knuckleblade - is this enough to kill mine, or would he survive (assuming no abilities are activated)?
November 20, 2014 11:44 a.m.
nobu_the_bard says... Accepted answer #4
Damage isn't tracked with counters, it's just "marked" on the card. Counters are a separate mechanic that generally stays in place indefinitely; damage only persists until the end of the turn. So the Dawnbringer Charioteers get 6 damage marked on them, and die when states are checked, because their damage is equal or greater than their toughness. Their controller gains 2 life since they dealt damage to something and have lifelink.
The Savage Knuckleblade, as Rhadamanthus said, is a 6/6 now with 2 damage marked on him following the fight. He can deal 6 damage to something, but it will only take 4 damage to finish him off (or reducing his toughness by 4 somehow so that 2 damage becomes fatal); another Savage Knuckleblade at 4/4 blocking him would kill them both (assuming nobody activates any of his abilities, as you said).
November 20, 2014 noon
Absinthman says... #5
To complement what has been said before:
First, I understand that you're not sure whether taking damage does something to a creature's power. No, it does not. Creature's power is not a depletable resource in terms of how you descibe it.
Second, damage is "marked" on creatures in MTG, as has been stated before - there are no "damage counters". However, you can use counters to represent that damage if you find it hard to keep track of how much damage has been marked on each creature. In that case though, be careful not to confuse those counters with "actual" counters (like +1/+1 counters or charge counters) that MTG works with. Damage remains marked on creatures until end of turn, so all damage that creatures are dealt within a single turn adds up. If that amount of damage equals or exceeds any given creature's toughness, it is considered lethal damage and that creature will die as a result. When the turn ends, all damage is removed from all creatures and they start the next turn fresh and healthy.
November 20, 2014 12:45 p.m.
Ok, thanks for confirming my answer. I knew that damage doesn't reduce a creature's toughness, but I wasn't sure if it used it's power to fight another creature if it then had less power inthe combat phase.
November 20, 2014 3:38 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
Please remember to select an answer to remove this question from the active queue.
nobu_the_bard says... #1
I'm not sure what you're asking. If you control both Savage Knuckleblade and Dawnbringer Charioteers, and targetted the Knuckleblade, you haven't met the requirement to trigger Heroic. Heroic requires you to target the Charioteers. Thus, the Knuckleblade is a 4/4 and the Charioteers are a 2/4 still.
If you mean the opponent controller the Knuckblade, and you controlled the Charioteers, he'd only have taken 6 damage (if the Charioteers attacked alone) if the Charioteers have prior +1/+1 counters; they'd have been a 3/5 lifelinker otherwise.
November 20, 2014 9:12 a.m.