saving Avalanche Riders from echo
Asked by metalmustaine 9 years ago
will Avalanche Riders be saved from echo if flicked by Conjurer's Closet?
Epochalyptik says... #2
@Devonin: Your wording is potentially confusing because you start with a positive check and then use a negative check to explain the mechanic without also explaining the mechanic's dependency on the check.
Here's the definition of echo:
702.29a Echo is a triggered ability. "Echo [cost]" means "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay [cost]."
Echo only checks whether you gained control of the creature since the beginning of the upkeep of your last turn, whether that was through a control-changing effect or through the creature entering the battlefield.
If you blink Avalanche Riders, you will have controlled the new Avalanche Riders for a duration within that window, so its echo ability will trigger on your next upkeep.
April 19, 2015 10:45 a.m.
Where was the negative check, exactly?
Checks if it came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep.
If you blink it, the next upkeep it will have come under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, so you'll still have to pay.
Not seeing where I switched from positive then negative.
April 19, 2015 11:55 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
"Controlled it since the beginning of the previous turn's upkeep" checks for the duration of control. That much is correct. But it's worth clarifying that anything that meets or exceeds this duration is exempt from echo. If it fails that check, then echo applies.
April 19, 2015 noon
Epochalyptik says... #5
It's also somewhat due to the phrase "still have controlled it since after," because the check that you described originally was to see if you have controlled something since at least the beginning of your last upkeep, not it you had gained control of something after the beginning of your last upkeep.
April 19, 2015 12:05 p.m.
metalmustaine says... #6
How bout' Otherworldly Journey? Can I flick it some other phase?
April 21, 2015 3:50 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
As I explained, echo cares only whether the creature has been under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep. I'd you lose control of the creature for any reason, then gain control of it, echo will trigger at your next upkeep.
You can respond to the echo ability by blinking Avalanche Riders, and its ability will do nothing, but you'll still have the echo cost from reentry to deal with.
April 21, 2015 8:04 a.m.
metalmustaine says... #8
what if i flick it every turn, will that reset the echo time frame?
April 22, 2015 11:40 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
It will, but you would have to do it in response to the echo ability unless you want to pay the echo cost every turn.
It's best to apply the principles from previous answers to future questions.
April 22, 2015 11:50 a.m.
metalmustaine says... #10
just to confirm, it would be best to use Nephalia Smuggler and flick Avalanche Riders at the begining of the upkeep correct?
Devonin says... #1
Nope.
Avalanche Riders triggers in your upkeep and checks if you controlled it since the beginning of your previous upkeep. If on that previous turn's end step you flickered it and got it back, you will still have controlled it since after the previous turn's upkeep and have to pay your echo cost.
April 19, 2015 9:42 a.m.