Responding to casting triggers
Asked by Nixin72 8 years ago
If someone has a creature that has an ability that is activated whenever they cast a spell (like Young Pyromancer for example), can you respond to the cast trigger? For example, they have a pyro on the field and cast Lightning Bolt. What does it change to respond to the cast trigger vs the spell? Why would someone respond to the spell instead of the trigger?
While playing against prowess creatures I often go to kill them and they respond with a spell to pump it and then I respond to the prowess trigger, which everyone seems to be okay with, but it seems odd to me. Isn't the idea of the prowess trigger supposed to go on the stack before the spell? I'm just confused as to why you'd ever respond to the spell as opposed to the ability that the spell trigger.
I apologize for the question being very broad, I just want basically an explanation of the scenario and where everything happens.
Okay? I'm not sure I understand. Could you give a play by play of the scenario and what's happening?
August 12, 2015 7:57 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... Accepted answer #3
Certainly.
Player A has Young Pyromancer on the battlefield and casts Lightning Bolt.
Lightning Bolt moves from their hand to the stack as part of being cast. Now having been cast, Young Pyromancer triggers.
(An ability can trigger at any time, but it doesn't go on to the stack until a player would receive priority. This is important for some effects like Gaea's Blessing can trigger while another effect is resolving, but the trigger won't go on the stack until the current effect has resolved completely and a player would receive priority)Having triggered, Young Pyromancer's trigger goes on the stack as soon as a player would receive priority, which in this case would be the active player as soon as they've completed casting the spell. Since this is done when a player would receive priority there is no option for any player to act prior to the trigger going on the stack.
The stack now has Young Pyromancer's trigger on top, Lightning Bolt on the bottom and the active player once again has priority. They must pass priority if they want their spells to resolve and the game to move forward, and it is when they pass priority that other players have the option to respond.
Player B casts Shock targeting Young Pyromancer. Now the stack has Shock on top, Young Pyromancer's trigger in the middle and Lightning Bolt on the bottom.
Everyone gets a chance to respond, and assuming all players pass priority things begin to resolve. There's another round of priority after the resolution of every effect on the stack.
First Shock resolves, dealing 2 damage to Young Pyromancer which dies as a state based action from having lethal damage marked on it.
Second, Young Pyromancer's ability resolves, putting a 1/1 Elemental with haste onto the battlefield. This is because once an ability is triggered it is independent of its source.
(Some abilities have intervening "if" clauses, like Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. These abilities check to make sure their condition is met upon resolution and can be affected by responses. In Valakut's case, if you remove enough Mountains that Valakut's controller no longer controls "5 other Mountains" when the trigger goes to resolve it will do nothing)Finally, Lightning Bolt resolves, dealing 3 damage to whatever it was targeting.
Pertinent rules:
603.2 Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered abilitys trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesnt do anything at this point.
603.3 Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object thats not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, Timing and Priority. The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until its countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
August 12, 2015 8:26 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Note that Young Pyromancer has a triggered ability. Triggered abilities trigger. Only activated abilities can be activated, and they must be activated manually.
August 12, 2015 8:28 p.m.
Actually, you can respond to the trigger. Take Archangel Avacyn for example.
They cast Avacyn, and you could cast Grasp of Darkness in response, but that would be in response to the spell. Therefore, she lands and gains indestructible.
Alternatively, you can say "In response to the trigger" and then cast Grasp of Darkness. In this way, you are casting Grasp in RESPONSE to the trigger, not her being cast. They both go to the stack, and Grasp kills Avacyn before she gains indestructible. The other creatures will still gain indestructability, but avacyn is dead as soon as she is cast.
Essentially, you have to wait for her to hit the battlefield, but you can kill her before her trigger resolves.
Here's an article to back me up:
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/57v8n1/how_are_they_killing_avacyn/
February 22, 2017 5:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
@JettHill: Although the basic idea of what you're saying is correct, I have some notes on your explanation:
You can't cast Grasp of Darkness in response to Archangel Avacyn Flip being cast unless you're targeting a creature that's already on the battlefield (Grasp of Darkness can't target things on the stack), so that's probably not a good example.
Additionally, Grasp of Darkness will kill a creature regardless of indestructible because indestructible does not save a creature from dying due to having 0 or less toughness. So in this example, it actually doesn't matter whether you cast it before or after Archangel Avacyn Flip's ability resolves.
It's also inaccurate to say that Archangel Avacyn Flip is dead as "soon as she is cast" in this scenario, since "as soon as something is cast" is a better description of the point at which something is on the stack rather than the point at which it is on the battlefield and ETB abilities have triggered (which would be "as soon as something resolves").
Those points aside, your answer is consistent with the original answers that were given to this question. Both explanations stated that you could respond to the trigger, and that, in some cases, that's the "better" thing to do.
Lastly, this question was answered a year and a half ago.
February 22, 2017 9:35 p.m.
XD how did this resurface? This was over a year ago! XD
FancyTuesday says... #1
Prowess does not go on the stack before the spell, it goes on the stack on top of the spell that triggered it and thus resolves first.
If a spell triggers an ability you cannot respond to that spell before the triggered ability goes on the stack, so effectively you can only respond to the ability. This is because the triggered ability goes on the stack when a player would receive priority.
You respond to the trigger going on to the stack, and so when you go to respond any spells or ability you throw out will go on top of that triggered ability and resolve before it would. However, unless the trigger is dependent on the game state you probably won't be able to interfere with it in any meaningful way. Young Pyromancer's trigger, for example, would still resolve and put a 1/1 Elemental token on to the battlefield regardless of whether or not it's on the battlefield when the ability resolves.
August 12, 2015 7:47 p.m.