Nightmare Shepherd vs. Tergrid, God of Fright  Flip

Asked by MLS91 1 month ago

Nightmare Shepherd enables you to exile the card that Tergrid, god of fight would steal otherwise? Asking in terms of knowledge for potential mirror matches at tables. Gotta have the leg up since we're all playing on sacrificing at some point or another in a multitude of decks

Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1

It depends on whose turn it is when the creature gets sacrificed. In a game with more than two players, the turn order also matters. If the Nightmare Shepherd trigger is put onto the stack first then the Tergrid, God of Fright  Flip trigger will resolve first, and vice versa.

If multiple triggers are trying to be put onto the stack at the same time, first the active player (the player whose turn it is) puts their triggers onto the stack in the order of their choice, then the next player in turn order puts theirs on onto the stack on top of those, and so on around the table in turn order.

In your example:

  • If it's the Shepherd's controller's turn, Tergrid wins
  • If it's Tergrid's controller's turn, the Shepherd wins
  • If it's someone else's turn, then Tergrid wins if Shepherd would go next and Shepherd wins if Tergrid would go next
March 2, 2021 12:48 p.m.

MLS91 says... #2

Ok, so in my mind the condition/wording of "DIES" is defined by that creature not just leaving the field of play, but specifically hitting the graveyard.

That being said even as the priority player would seem that no matter what I would have the choice of placement on the stack considering that Nightmare Shepherd is a "may" ability. Or is it that what you're getting at, and that I may be misunderstanding would be that the triggers of both Shepherd and Tergrid go to the stack at the same time and because of such player WITH the priority has their ability placed on the stack first regardless?

March 2, 2021 1:02 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #3

It has to do with the specific way triggered abilities are handled in the rules.

An ability triggers whenever the specified event happens, even if it happens in the middle of a cost being paid or another spell/ability resolving, but the game waits until the next time a player would receive priority to put the trigger onto the stack. Under normal circumstances (i.e. no Rest in Peace , etc. complicating things), this means both Nightmare Shepherd and Tergrid, God of Fright  Flip will trigger when the Shepherd's controller sacrifices a creature and puts it into the graveyard, so the next time a player gets priority the game will be trying to put them onto the stack at the same time. To figure out what happens, we go to the active player / turn order method explained above.

The "may" part of Nightmare Shepherd's ability doesn't affect how the trigger is put onto the stack. As the trigger starts resolving, the "may" gives the controller a choice on whether or not to exile the card.

March 2, 2021 2:16 p.m.

Neotrup says... #4

I think a point you may be getting confused by is that Nightmare Shepherd 's May clause is a cost, and costs for activated abilities and spells are paid as they're put onto the stack (so Night Soil would exile the cards before anything else could be put on the stack), but with triggered abilities the costs are paid on resolution, which means another ability like Tegrid, God of Fright's can make that cost unpayable.

March 2, 2021 2:25 p.m.

MLS91 says... #5

So due to the clarity you all are giving me, Shepherd's ability is better reactively then actively?

March 2, 2021 2:30 p.m.

Polaris says... #6

Like Rhadamanthus said, Nightmare Shepherd and Tergrid will both trigger together, and with the way the game works the trigger that resolves first will be the one belonging to the player who's furthest from now in the turn order. It's not about Nightmare Shepherd being a reactive card - this will happen with any pair of conflicting triggered abilities.

Also, since Nightmare Shepherd 's ability is triggered it doesn't have an activation cost. Exiling the creature card happens when the ability resolves.

March 2, 2021 3:29 p.m.

MLS91 says... #7

ok, so now understanding how this interaction stacks and resolves itself, I can infer that depending upon whom has priority Tergrid can counter/overrule Shepherd and Shepherd can likewise overrule Tergrid. As you all said it comes down the most to players turn order. Thanks all for the insight, I don't mean to beat a sacrificed horse with this comment. Just to confirm I understand the fully the interaction and insight you all have given me. thanks all again GG

March 2, 2021 3:46 p.m.

ghostmode says... #8

it's not really a matter of proactive vs. reactive here. it's simply a matter of who's turn it is. that can sometimes put you in a less strategic place if you think about it.

shepherds ability can be better used reactively in more typical senses, like sacrificing a creature in response to counter an opponent's Eat to Extinction or waiting for the opponent to tap out so you know they can't respond with Cling to Dust to exile the creature before you can. (i don't know what cards people play these are just examples)

with shepherd vs. tergrid, it's more of a unique interaction that can be restrictive of both players simply because it gets down to the real nitty gritty of the rules.

-correct me if i'm wrong on anything anyone thanks

March 6, 2021 3:37 p.m.

ghostmode says... #9

"beat a sacrificed horse" though i lol'ed

and yeah like Polaris and Neotrup said the word "may" doesn't mean there is a cost, so nothing here would make your action precede the stack. it's on the stack. a cost is denoted by preceding a colon ":" or saying explicitly "as an additional cost" or "instead of paying it's mana cost" etc. "may" simply means that you can or can choose not to. if the creature is no longer in the place where the action needs it to be, then you just can't lol.

March 6, 2021 3:50 p.m.

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