nekusar, the mindrazer + rooftop storm
Asked by Khanye 9 years ago
does Rooftop Storm allow me to cast Nekusar, the Mindrazer for free even after several deaths?
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be 0. It cant be reduced to less than 0. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
117.9. Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell's text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell's mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, "You may [action] rather than pay [this object's] mana cost," or "You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost." Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.
903.10. A player may cast a commander he or she owns from the command zone. Doing so costs that player an additional 2 for each previous time he or she cast that commander from the command zone that game.
Rooftop Storm allows you to pay an alternative cost for the Zombie creature spells you cast, that cost being 
. The alternative cost does not overwrite any additional costs, which you will still have to pay. Therefore, you will pay the increasing 
for each time your general is returned to the command zone
January 20, 2015 4:35 p.m.
its not listed as a keyword though, therefore not a true alternative / mandatory additional step/cost. I think for commander's the interaction is legal so long as they are a zombie creature spell.
January 20, 2015 4:40 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
There is no keyword for additional costs. The commander tax is an additional cost, and it can't be overridden (although cost-reducing effects still apply). You still have to pay per recast from the command zone regardless of whether you are casting the spell for its mana cost or not.
Also, it's taboo to ask for a specific user's help in the Q&A. There are plenty of knowledgeable users who can handle rules questions.
January 20, 2015 5:05 p.m.
@ epoch Well you are considered by many to be the most knowledgeable for edh, so I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth so to speak. Your answer is a bit confusing though still.
"The commander tax is an additional cost, and it can't be overridden (although cost-reducing effects still apply). You still have to pay per recast from the command zone regardless of whether you are casting the spell for its mana cost or not." If cost reductions still apply after the taxes, wouldn't it make zombie generals 0?
January 20, 2015 8:16 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Rooftop Storm doesn't create a cost reduction. It creates an alternate cost.
January 20, 2015 8:38 p.m.
The cost is
"The Mana Cost" plus " for each time the creature has been cast from the command zone"
Rooftop Storm replaces "The Mana Cost" with "0" leaving you with
"0 plus " for each time the creature has been cast from the command zone""
January 20, 2015 10:18 p.m.
903.10. A player may cast a commander he or she owns from the command zone. Doing so costs that player an additional 2 for each previous time he or she cast that commander from the command zone that game.
the best way to look at this is that Rooftop Storm makes the cost of a creature effectively free so you would cast it so. ..free. HOWEVER in commander there is a rule specific to commander adding a SEPARATE but required cost to be paid. think of it like Nekusar does not cost two more each time but you are paying a fee to use it again. its like a penalty for recasting.
Khanye says... #1
Epochalyptik need your help
January 20, 2015 4:13 p.m.