Myr Welder and exiling shenanigans
Asked by SorcerersBone 9 years ago
Does Myr Welder include activated of nonartifact cards if it can somehow exile them? For example, Myr Welder + Steamclaw , or Myr Incubator , or Phyrexian Portal ?
With the above and any planeswalker in a graveyard. Does the Welder gain the abilities of that planeswalker? Can I activate them any number of times? If not, and I exile 2 different planeswalker cards, can I activate one ability from each?
Can I play cards exiled with the Welder if i imprint/exile Muse Vessel ?
With Shell of the Last Kappa and any card, can I cast that card? (not just instants and sorceries?)
Also, with Myr Welder + Pyxis of Pandemonium , does the Welder gain activated abilities of cards exiled face down?
I'm sorry if its a lot of questions, but i just discovered this card and i'm a massive Johnny player. I couldn't help myself xD
Epochalyptik says... #2
Myr Welder 's last ability just states "Myr Welder has all activated abilities of all cards exiled with it." The ability doesn't check what kind of cards you exiled or which of Myr Welder 's abilities exiled them. All it cares is that you exiled those cards with Myr Welder somehow.
If you somehow exile a planeswalker card with Myr Welder , you are allowed to activate Myr Welder 's new loyalty abilities, but only if you can pay the activation costs. Specifically, Myr Welder will not have any loyalty counters by default, so you will only be able to activate + or 0 loyalty abilities until you accumulate enough counters to start activating - abilities. You're still limited to one loyalty ability on each of your turns, though. The rules governing loyalty abilities specify that you may activate one loyalty ability of each permanent on each of your turns, regardless of whether those permanents are planeswalkers or non-planeswalkers that somehow gained loyalty abilities. This means that even if you exile multiple planeswalkers with Myr Welder , you can still only activate one loyalty ability on each of your turns.
With Muse Vessel
: Yes. Whenever a card uses its own name in its text without specifying "a card named ~," then the mention is self-referential and means "this card right here." If you imprint Muse Vessel
on Myr Welder
, Myr Welder
gains the ability "
: Choose a card exiled with Myr Welder. You may play that card this turn."
With Shell of the Last Kappa : Yes, but you will still have to pay the activation cost, meaning you'll have to sacrifice Myr Welder .
With Pyxis of Pandemonium : No. Cards exiled face down have no characteristics.
406.3. Exiled cards are, by default, kept face up and may be examined by any player at any time. Cards "exiled face down" can't be examined by any player except when instructions allow it. However, once a player is allowed to look at a card exiled face down, that player may continue to look at that card as long as it remains exiled, even if the instruction allowing the player to do so no longer applies. A card exiled face down has no characteristics, but the spell or ability that exiled it may allow it to be played from exile. Unless that card is being cast face down (see rule 707.4), the card is turned face up just before the player announces that he or she is playing the card (see rule 601.2).
October 14, 2014 11:19 p.m.
Things which aren't Myr Welder which exile cards from your graveyard have no interaction with Myr Welder
It only gains abilities from cards exiled with its own ability, which is to say, you tap it, and target an artifact card in your graveyard which is still there to be exiled by it when the ability resolves.
Cards exiled by Pyxis of Pandemonium , Steamclaw or any others have literally zero interaction with Myr Welder 's static ability.
October 14, 2014 11:21 p.m.
Ohhhhhhhhhhh, man I'm dense tonight. Yeah. Ignore me. You're exiling those first to give it the ability to exile other stuff. Herp and also Derp.
October 14, 2014 11:22 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #5
Actually, no. Devonin is correct on this one.
I read your answer and went back to check the rules about linked abilities.
607.2a If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to "the exiled cards" or to cards "exiled with [this object]," these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability.
Since Myr Welder has linked abilities as defined by 607.2a, it only gains the abilities of cards exiled with its first (imprint) ability.
That sucks. It could be so much better.
October 14, 2014 11:26 p.m.
smash10101 says... #6
Yeah, unfortunately, Myr Welder has linked abilities, so it only gets abilities of cards exiled with it's imprint ability.
October 14, 2014 11:50 p.m.
SorcerersBone says... #7
Wait doesn't this ruling apply too?
607.1a An ability printed on an object within another ability that grants that ability to that object is still considered to be "printed on" that object for these purposes.
607.2a is still referring to printed on abilities as linked abilities, and 607.1a is saying that these new abilities are considered to be printed on, and therefore also linked. I don't see any dissonance here.
October 14, 2014 11:56 p.m.
Myr Welder gains the abilities of cards exiled with its imprint ability.
These new abilities are not linked to the static ability of Myr Welder .
607.2a says:
The second ability refers only to cards in the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability.
Say you exile Pyxis of Pandemonium with the first ability. As per the second ability, Myr Welder gains the ability of Pyxis of Pandemonium . This is a new ability, and is separate from Myr Welder 's original imprint ability. It has no relation to the second ability whatsoever.
October 15, 2014 12:15 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #9
@SorcerersBone: 607.1a is meant to cover some corner cases that are so difficult to construct that I'm having trouble finding cards that can actually do it. Myr Welder doesn't have any ability of the type described by that rule.
pskinn01 says... #1
Myr welder gains all activated abilities it exiles, no matter how it exiles it. But it can't gain abilities that you do not have knowledge of. So if the card is exiled face down, you will not know what abilities it has, so it won't gain any.
October 14, 2014 11:18 p.m.