multiple notion thieves
Asked by koylucumert 4 years ago
so lets say a game of 4 person (A,B,C,D in that turn order) what would happen when
a)A and B has notion thief and A casts vision skeins
b)A and B has notion thief and B casts vision skeins
c)A and B has notion thief and C or D casts vision skeins
d)A and C has notion thief and A casts vision skeins
e)A and C has notion thief and B casts vision skeins
cards in referance: Notion Thief Vision Skeins
for all modes consider each player has drawn his first card for the turn
sorry for long question
Rhadamanthus says... #2
The card draws that A or B would get directly from Vision Skeins ' effect get stolen by the other's Notion Thief , but then get stolen back by the first player's Thief. This means A and B each get at least two cards.
However, C and D get to choose who their draws go to. If multiple replacement effects (you can usually tell them by "as", "with", or "instead" somewhere in the text) are trying to change how an event would affect a player or object, then the affected player or controller of the affected object decides which one to apply. This means that for each of their draws, C and D get to choose which of A's and B's Thieves will steal it first, and then the other player's Thief will steal it for good. Because C and D are being asked to make decisions at the same time, they make them in turn order, starting with the active player.
May 14, 2019 8:44 p.m.
koylucumert says... #3
that was very clear. thank you for your time. i dont know how to reference usernames but if i could i would
May 14, 2019 8:53 p.m.
NP, bae.
There's a link for formatting tips just below the comment box if you're interested.
May 14, 2019 9:01 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
Same way you do for cards, double square brackets around the name: Yesterday, koylucumert
Yesterday says... Accepted answer #1
Unlike with triggered abilities where player turn order matters, the player who would have their action replaced is always the one who chose which replacement effect to apply, even if they don't control all sources of permanents that apply these effects. So this means is that if you have an Underrealm Lich and an opponent controls a Notion Thief , you can choose to have the opponent draw the extra card instead of you, or you can choose to filter the top three with the Lich.
But in the case of a few of the examples you gave above, replacing the effect with one ability would cause it to then be replaced by another. This gets kinda confusing the more it gets compounded.
I think you already know this, but to understand this, it's critical to be aware that the one replacement effect only applies to the one action once. This makes it so that the game doesn't end in a draw with two Notion Thieves in play, and allows things like Thought Reflection and Mox Diamond
to function.
So, let's run through it. Neither the caster nor the turn order matters that much, so your examples will play out very similarly.
Player A and player B each control a Notion Thief. Vision Skiens is cast.
For the two cards that player A would draw, player B's Notion Thief replaces that effect and player B would draw them instead. But player A's Notion Thief replaces that effect and player A draws them instead. Player B's replacement effect already applied to this action, so it doesn't try to apply to it a second time.
For the two cards that player B would draw, the same happens in reverse. When dealing with two players and each control a Notion Thief, functionally what happens is they cancel each other out.
For the two cards player C would draw, they choose which replacement effect will replace their draw. They can choose between player A or player B's Notion Thief. If they choose player A, then player A would go to draw those two cards, but player B's replacement effect applies and so player B draws them instead. If player C had chosen player B's replacement effect instead, then player B would have gone to draw those two cards but player A's Notion Thief replaces that draw and player A draws instead. If player C has a preference for which of these two players would draw the cards, then that choice is in player C's hands, but player C needs to have their own draw be initially replaced by the player they don't want to draw the cards.
Player D has the same set of choices to make as player C.
Because the turn order doesn't matter except for the order in which the players make their choices, I'm hoping you understand how it would play out in each scenario, given my example above. I can explain more though, if you want.
May 14, 2019 8:28 p.m.