Melira, Sylvok Outcast having to save herself with persist
Asked by metalmustaine 9 years ago
will Melira, Sylvok Outcast's ability still trigger if she gains persist from Cauldron of Souls?
cklise No, you are actually incorrect, Melira"s ability will not prevent a -1/-1 counter from being placed on her if she persists onto the battlefield.
While Melira's ability is static, like you said, it is not a characteristic-defining ability, and therefore only functions when she is on the battlefield. Persist however, does not place counters on creatures while they are on the battlefield, but rather makes them enter with a counter, a replacement effect that modifies the way the creature enters the battlefield.
While this effect does count as placing a counter on a permanent, and will be effected by any other Melira's or Doubling Seasons on the battlefield, it will not be effected by any static abilities of the entering permanent, as the permanent is not yet on the battlefield to make those abilities take effect.
Similarly, a Corpsejack Menace that's been given Undying will not reenter the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters, but while it's on the battlefield your other Undying creatures will.
Compare to Tatterkite, which has a characteristic-defining static ability, and will never Persist back with a counter under any circumstances.
(To your credit, this is a tricky question, and the only reason I know the answer so well is that the last time I saw it posed on this site it sparked an ENORMOUS debate over both what the answer was, and whether or not the rules should be changed to allow the version that people liked better.)
April 14, 2015 4:15 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #4
@sonnet666: The key factor isn't CDA vs. non-CDA. It's that a replacement effect modifying how an object enters the battlefield will only affect the object it's printed on if that object is the only object it applies to. Melira's effect (like Corpsejack Menace's effect) applies to a larger class of objects, not just Melira, so it doesn't modify how Melira enters the battlefield. Tatterkite's effect isn't a CDA but it only applies to Tatterkite and nothing else, so it can modify how Tatterkite enters the battlefield.
April 14, 2015 1:05 p.m.
metalmustaine says... #5
So melira can't remove the counters? Well.... That suxs....
April 16, 2015 3:34 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
Right, but remember this odd quirk of the rules only applies to a situation where she's entering the battlefield with -1/-1 counters. If she's already on the battlefield and something would place a -1/-1 counter on her then it doesn't, as would be expected.
cklise says... #1
Melira's abilities are static, not triggered, but you are otherwise correct. Her ability will prevent a -1/-1 counter being placed on Melira after she returns to the battlefield thanks to persist.
April 14, 2015 3:21 a.m.