Interactions with Humility, Eldrazi Monument, and Sudden Spoiling
Asked by forte8910 9 years ago
So I had an interesting situation come up in an EDH game tonight, and I wanted to clarify how cards that grant, modify, and remove abilities interact. There are three main points in time that I want to make sure I understand how the layering works:
1) I control 3 2/2 Zombie creature tokens, and Grimgrin, Corpse-Born with 5 +1/+1 counters. My opponent plays Humility on their turn, so I now have 3 1/1s and a 1/1 with 5 +1/+1 counters, effectively a 6/6. Nothing has any abilities. Is this correct?
2) I then play Eldrazi Monument on my pre-combat main phase. Do I now have 3 2/2s and a 7/7, or 3 1/1s and a 6/6? And do they or don't they have Flying and Indestructible? That is, does Humility only remove abilities on the creatures themselves, or does it also remove abilities granted by other sources?
3) I enter combat. I declare all 4 of my creatures as attackers, and in response my opponent plays Sudden Spoiling. Now, do I have 3 1/3s and a 6/8, or 3 0/2s and a 5/7? And do they or don't they have Flying and Indestructible?
Epochalyptik says... #2
Worth noting is that Humility and Sudden Spoiling both remove all abilities, including abilities granted by other sources, but they apply in timestamp order and so cannot remove abilities with newer timestamps than themselves.
April 7, 2015 11:10 p.m.
1) that is correct.
2) if an 2 cards effect an item is the same layer use a time stamp order to determine the order in which they apply. So you have 3 2/2s and a 7/7 with flying and indestructible.
- Due to the order in which they apply(time stamp - reference the above link), you have 3 0/2's and a 5/7 with no abilities.
April 7, 2015 11:11 p.m.
woops did my calculations wrong. Epoc is correct on the creatures power/toughness in number 3.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1
Oh EDH.
1) You're correct. Ability adding or removing effects apply in layer 6. Effects that set P/T apply in layer 7b, while P/T changes from counters apply in 7d. You'll have three vanilla 1/1s and one vanilla 6/6.
2) Eldrazi Monument's ability has a newer timestamp than Humility's ability, so Humility's ability will apply first, then Eldrazi Monument's ability will apply. Effects that change P/T without setting it are applied in layer 7c. You'll have three 2/2 tokens with flying and indestructible and one 7/7 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born with flying and indestructible.
3) Now Sudden Spoiling has the newest timestamp. You'll have three 1/3 tokens with no abilities and one 6/8 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born with no abilities.
April 7, 2015 11:09 p.m.