Inferno Titan + Keen Sense + bounce
Asked by -Logician 8 years ago
If I attack with an Inferno Titan who is enchanted with Keen Sense, causing his ability to trigger and target my opponent with 3 damage, then my opponent responds with overloaded Cyclonic Rift, then do I get to draw a card when the 3 damage is dealt to my opponent afterwards from Keen Sense, since the source of the damage was an inferno titan with the text "Whenever enchanted creature deals damage to an opponent, draw a card." on it?
I think no, but I'd like a definite answer. If yes, does it make a difference whether the card bouncing Inferno Titan is a spell like overloaded Cyclonic Rift that bounces both the Inferno Titan and the Keen Sense simultaneously, as opposed to a bounce spell like AEtherize which would bounce the Inferno Titan and let the Keen Sense be put into the graveyard via state-based actions?
Rhadamanthus says... #2
It's true that the game will use "last known information" to determine the characteristics of a source of damage if it isn't around when the damage is actually dealt, but a triggered ability (starts with "when/whenever/at") has to exist at the time the triggering event would happen in order to trigger. In your example, Keen Sense is not on the battlefield at the time damage is dealt, so the ability doesn't exist and doesn't trigger.
Also, it's an ability of Keen Sense, itself, not one it gives to the enchanted creature. The answer doesn't change if the situation was the opposite.
FancyTuesday says... Accepted answer #1
You will not draw a card from Keen Sense. Because your opponent responded to Inferno Titan's trigger that trigger is still on the stack, Cyclonic Rift goes on the stack on top of Inferno Titan's damage trigger and bounces Inferno Titan and Keen Sense back to your hand. Cyclonic Rift resolves, then Inferno Titan's damage trigger resolves, this is when Keen Sense would trigger, but since it's no longer on the battlefield enchanting the creature dealing damage it can't.
That Keen Sense went to your hand and not your graveyard doesn't matter. It has to be a permanent enchanting a creature for its ability to trigger.
November 12, 2015 2 p.m.